Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:56:44 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vladimir Vrabec
Subject: Nove dny otevrenych dveri do Internetu
X-To: net@cs.felk.cvut.cz, SEMINAR@UTIA.CAS.CZ
X-cc: smajlik@cs.felk.cvut.cz, STR-SKOL@EARN.CVUT.CZ
Vazeni,
pokud Vas zajima ohlas Dnu otevrenych dveri do Internetu, ktere
se konaly v zari, nebo mate zajem ucastnit se Novych dnu, ktere probehnou
19. a 20. ledna 1996, podivejte se bud na
http://omicron.felk.cvut.cz/cgi-bin/charset/html/dny1.html?charset=__CHARSET__
nebo na
gopher://omicron.felk.cvut.cz/00/training/czech/nove-dny
Mate-li k dispozici pouze e-mail, pouzijte omicronovsky mailserver:
TO:omi_news@cs.felk.cvut.cz
Subject:#get nove-dny.txt
Text:prazdny
Soucasti Novych dnu bude opet v patek 19. ledna seminar. Byli
bychom radi, kdyby pokracoval predstavovanim dalsich poskytovatelu
internetovskych sluzeb a navic i referaty ci sdelenimi k odbornym
internetovskym tematum. Zajemci o vystoupeni na seminari se mohou
prihlasovat u mne. S pozdravem
Vladimir Vrabec
OMICRON
vrabec@cs.felk.cvut.cz,
tel. (02) 24357323
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:04:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Kristof Petr
Subject: ANNOUNCE: GateD configuration guide
Lokalni kopie je na URL:
http://ww2.fce.vutbr.cz/mirror/gated/
treba se bude nekomu hodit.
Mali nekdo po ruce chodici konfigurak pro gated, sem s nim!
Diky
Petr Kristof
====================================================================
| Kristof Petr kri@fce.vutbr.cz |
| Technical University Of Brno Dept. Of Computer Science |
| |
| Goodness must be forced to people! |
====================================================================
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:33:34 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Koci
Subject: Just Add Kit pro W95 a Warp
X-To: net@cs.felk.cvut.cz
X-cc: os2c-l@alfa.vse.cz
Hello all,
Kdo mate zajem o Just Add Kit popisovany v Chipweeku 31, jeho domovska
stranka je
http://www.austin.ibm.com/pspinfo/drk95.html
Co to umi - poradi, jak mohou koexistovat W95 a Warp (na rozdil od
tvrzeni instalac. programu W95). Dale poradi pri odinstalovani W95,
otestuje HW a dalsi. Jsou to 3 diskety nebo najednou asi 3,5 MB.
Bye
Stan /\
Stanislav Koci e-mail: bilbo@hobit.anet.cz
HOBIT s.r.o. tel.: +42-2-7821300
Nad Primaskou 35 fax: +42-2-7821968
100 00 Praha 10 fido: 2:420/55
Czech Republic
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:05:28 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jakub Nantl
Subject: GAted
X-To: 193.84.214.0@albert.opf.slu.cz, dialup@albert.opf.slu.cz,
jednou@albert.opf.slu.cz, konfigurak@albert.opf.slu.cz,
linux@albert.opf.slu.cz, pro@albert.opf.slu.cz,
se@albert.opf.slu.cz, siti@albert.opf.slu.cz
/etc/gated.conf
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:20:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jakub Nantl
Subject: ||Gated konfigurak pro linux s jednou dialup siti 193.84.214.0 po
druhe :)
#tracefile /var/tmp/gated.log size 100k ;
#traceoptions general route kernel update icmp ;
#rip yes ;
#snmp yes ;
rip yes {
broadcast ;
# interface all ripin ripout ;
# interface sl0 metricin 2 ;
# trustedgateways 193.84.208.1 193.84.208.11 193.84.208.10;
# sourcegateways 193.84.208.1 ;
} ;
static {
default gateway 193.84.208.1 retain ;
193.84.214.0 gateway 193.84.214.1 interface sl0 slip ppp ;
} ;
export proto rip {
proto static {
193.84.214.0 metric 2 ;
} ;
} ;
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 12:13:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Petr Opletal
Organization: ESF MU Brno
Subject: Pristup k zaznamu v databazi
Dobry den,
nevi nekdo o databazovem systemu (lokalni hracka typu Paradox, Access
nebo db-server), ktery by _systemove_ (tzn. neni potreba/mozno nebo
nutno programovat) podporoval ochranu dat na urovni pristupovych prav
k jednotlivym zaznamum (tzn. aby se mimo jine ke kazdemu zaznamu/vete
evidoval - bylo mozno - majitel, vznik), bylo mozno urcit pro koho (s
vyuzitim standardniho bezpecnostniho systemu, tzn. skupiny uzivatelu,
ktere maji jaky typ pristupu) je zaznam jak pristupny, pripadne
definovat pravidla (pro tu kterou tabulku v databazi - standardni
nastaveni)?
Pripadne jestli existuje cesky list o databazich (news comp.databases
je sice moc pekne, ale strasne ukecane a neni cas).
Nevi nekdo o listu (jakemkoli, krome news comp.databases.olap) o EIS?
Diky
Opletal
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 15:07:47 -0500
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Barry Bouwsma
Subject: Re: www
>lokalni verzi programu klient pro www ?
If this is not well known already, the beta releases of Netscape2.0
offer support for automatic switching between the Latin-1 character set
as used in the majority of western European documents and the default,
and a handful of other encodings, including the ISO 8859-2 encoding which
would be used in pages written in Czech and Slovak.
This is accomplished by the META tag which should be added to an HTML
document body as follows to give it a MIME charset tagging...
When these new versions of Netscape encounter such a document, they
will attempt to display it with a Latin-2 font, provided one is available.
A stupid example of this, which was primarily written to demonstrate
this ability of Netscape, can be found temporarily at:
http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/
It is my hope that this charset tagging gets added to all pages which
are not exclusively in ASCII, to permit proper viewing of both pages in
western languages and those in Czech, Slovak, and all the other languages
supported by this tagging.
--
Barry Bouwsma, Mendel University Brno, Czech Republic -- I Still Have No Life
Flash! Seeking work with computers over winter in Czech or Slovak Republic...
(or Austria, Switzerland, Germany...) send offers to
This sig is five lines long. Check your newsreader configuration if you do no
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:29:56 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Oprava Wangtek CN3100
protoze selhaly bezne metody hledam touto cestou informaci o firme,
ktera by se mohla pokusit opravit streamer Wangtek CN3100. Protoze je
uz po zaruce a nejde zrejme o trivialni zavadu, tak je mi nabizena
oprava v cene blizici se novemu...
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:12:11 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: www
On 3 Dec 1995, Barry Bouwsma wrote:
> When these new versions of Netscape encounter such a document, they
> will attempt to display it with a Latin-2 font, provided one is available=
.
How does it select the font from the available Latin-2 fonts? We have
these free (monospaced) ISO-Latin2 fonts on our Linux machine, and when I
tried it, it didn't do anything. Well, that's probably because I don't
have the tags in documents.. (But wouldn't these tags confuse
browsers, which use non-ISO-Latin2 fonts, like Netscape for MS-Windows?=20
S =E8e=B9tinou je to v=BEdycky hr=F9za..)
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:39:34 -0500
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Thomas R Rocek
Subject: netscape character set
In-Reply-To: <199512032301.SAA16040@copland.udel.edu>
Does anyone know how to get the character set coding to work in the 1.x
netscape versions? If I select czech fonts in the preferences sections,
netscape allows me to do this, but keeps Latin1 coding (it offers only
Japanese coding as an alternative). So, when I view czech documents,
accented characters are replaced by blank boxes. Thanks a lot for any
suggestions...best wishes, Tom Rocek
**************************************************************
* Tom Rocek *
* Department of Anthropology Email: rocek@udel.edu *
* University of Delaware Fax: (302) 831-4002 *
* Newark, DE 19716 Voice: (302) 831-3695 *
**************************************************************
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:38:14 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: guest
Subject: Re: several messages about Netscape and charsets
X-To: Hynek Med
X-cc: barryb@tuke.sk
In-Reply-To:
Please ignore the From: header on this message. The LISTSERV processor
loses the Reply-To: field which I have, which should be
for messages not intended to be posted to the whole list. Sorry...
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
> On 3 Dec 1995, Barry Bouwsma wrote (discussing META MIME charset
tagging and Netscape 2.0 releases under X Windows):
> > When these new versions of Netscape encounter such a document, they
> > will attempt to display it with a Latin-2 font, provided one is availab=
le.
>=20
> How does it select the font from the available Latin-2 fonts?
You can see this in the Preferences: Under the pull-down menu
``Options'', the top item -- ``General Preferences'' (the language
encoding is something different which I shall mention later).
Within the General Preferences pop-up window, the second folder is
called ``Fonts''. Look to see what is there.
You will see an encoding. This will probably be the western Latin-1
encoding. If you click on this box, a menu will appear with all the
charset encodings for the fonts which are available on your system.
You want the Central European (Latin-2) encoding. Select that.
You will then see what fonts Netscape has chosen to use as the
default when displaying documents with this type. You can select from
the pop-up menus provided by these boxes, if you don't like the default.
Save your preferences if you change them.
These fonts are found by searching the list of available fonts for
those which use the ISO 8859-2 encoding, then Netscape picks two.
If the Central European encoding does not appear, that means that
Netscape was not able to find any fonts with the ISO 8859-2 encoding on
your system. You can check this by listing the fonts...
xlsfonts | grep 8859-2
If no fonts are listed, that means your Xserver has no Latin-2 fonts
available -- they were not installed, or not properly installed. If this
is the case, you can add fonts to your font path from a font server -- we
have the fonts found on our FTP server available, which can be added
with the command...
xset fp+ tcp/fs.vszbr.cz:7000
If you got no error, the xlsfonts command should list about half a
dozen fonts which match. (This will not work with X11R4.)
Provided you have ISO Latin-2 fonts, Netscape2.0 will then be able to
support automatic switching from the default charset encoding to Latin-2,
*provided* that the document describes itself with the META tag for
MIME charset that I mentioned earlier.
Note that the item under the Options pull-down menu entitled
``Language Encoding'' has nothing to do with this. What this does is to
define the default charset assumed to be used by Web pages.
The HTML spec specifies ISO-8859-1 to be the default encoding. That
means, in the absence of any charset specification in the document, it is
assumed to be Latin-1. Of course, this is useless in countries where
Latin-1 encoding is not used, such as in SK/CZ, so pages have been created
with a number of different byte->character mappings to match the displays
available to the user. Until now, there has been no client support for the
META charset tagging, so the best one could do was to use a different
default font/charset-encoding. This is what is defined here.
When a document without tagging is encountered, the encoding
specified here will be that which is assumed to be in use. For browsing
documents in these countries, some Latin-2 encoding can be assumed, so if
all you do is surf in the area, you can define your encoding to be
Central European and see everything correctly when viewing a document
delivered to your browser with ISO-8859-2 encoding.
If you spend time outside, such as in Germany, France, Scandinavia,
and so on, those pages will use the Latin-1 encoding. Unfortunately,
most of those pages will be without the META tagging, and will therefore
display using the default character set you've specified, so you may have
to change this encoding on-the-fly as you view documents to match the
encoding in use.
As I mentioned, it would be nice if all documents were to include a
tagging to guarantee that the displayed text matches. However, the
burden falls on non-ASCII or non-Latin-1 documents, which would include
virtually all Czech/Slovak pages with diacritics.
> We have
> these free (monospaced) ISO-Latin2 fonts on our Linux machine, and when I
> tried it, it didn't do anything. Well, that's probably because I don't
> have the tags in documents..
Exactly. In the absence of a META tag describing the charset, it is
assumed to be Latin-1, or more correctly, it is displayed with the
default Language Encoding which you have selected. In order for this
automatic switching to work, the META tag mentioned in my earlier
message must be included in the document.
There are two documents to which I have added this META tagging, one
shamelessly stolen from another server and to which I merely added the
tag, which can be viewed (it's short) at...
http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/czdocs.html
And the one I first mentioned, at...
http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/
These two documents can be used to verify that this Netscape2.0
feature works.
If you want the ISO Latin-2 documents which you serve to always
display correctly when viewed by this latest Netscape, then you must add
this tagging. Without it, it will not work automagically.
> (But wouldn't these tags confuse
> browsers, which use non-ISO-Latin2 fonts, like Netscape for MS-Windows?
> S =E8e=B9tinou je to v=BEdycky hr=F9za..)
No more than delivering the document without the tagging. Ideally,
the client (Netscape) can perform the mapping from the over-the-wire
encoding defined in the META MIME charset tag, to the display font which
is in use locally. But I don't know if the ISO-8859-2 -> CP1250 mapping
is in place in MS-Win Netscape, likewise with Mac Netscape.
All I know about this META tagging was obtained from the Netscape
Release Notes, or News, or help, or wherever. I do not know which
charsets are understood for mapping by Netscape, nor have I looked at
the spec to see if it is permissible to tag the alternative Latin-2
encodings with the tagging from the Assigned Numbers RFC. It could well
be that in order for a given tagging to be displayed properly, you must
have a font with that encoding available, but I really have no idea. I
guess it's time for me to play with this...
In any case, I can't see that it would hurt, if you are serving pages
with MS-Win Latin-2 encoding, to tag them with the charset value of
CP1250. After all, that is correct, because this tag describes what is
used, which is better than guessing, and a smart client can use mapping
tables, or GNU recode, or whatever, to convert the encoding to the local
display.
On 4 Dec 1995, Thomas R Rocek wrote:
> Does anyone know how to get the character set coding to work in the 1.x
> netscape versions? If I select czech fonts in the preferences sections,
Netscape 1.* does not support charset tagging, and is only aware of
the western Latin-1 encoding, ASCII, and Japanese.
Also, in the two versions of Netscape 1.1 that I tried to run, I
saw no possibility under Preferences to select the font. (I may have
overlooked something, and my window is too big to fit the screen.) In
one of them, I saw a variety of encodings, the default from which was
Latin-1, but this was not in the other; both Unix Netscape.
> netscape allows me to do this, but keeps Latin1 coding (it offers only
> Japanese coding as an alternative). So, when I view czech documents,
> accented characters are replaced by blank boxes.
Netscape probably searches for a specified font, but only if the
description of the font matches the selected coding (that is, if the
string ends in 8859-1 for Latin-1). So, it's going to find a Latin-1
font -- except not all fonts tagged with 8859-1 are really Latin-1.
Netscape may have had to use an ASCII font. These are just guesses.
I would have to ask what documents you are trying to view (to
determine the encoding used), and how you are running Netscape. But I
think it would be easier to obtain a beta copy of Netscape2.0 for viewing
non-western-European language documents, because a minimum of
configuration would be necessary, and everything should be automatic with
properly-tagged source documents.
I'd be interested to hear the results of non-Unix Netscape when
viewing tagged ISO-8859-2 documents...
Barry Bouwsma
visiting MZLU Brno, CZ
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:41:49 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Subject: Re: several messages about Netscape and charsets
X-To: guest
In-Reply-To:
Thanks for your thorough reply.
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, guest wrote:
> Provided you have ISO Latin-2 fonts, Netscape2.0 will then be able to
> support automatic switching from the default charset encoding to Latin-2,
> *provided* that the document describes itself with the META tag for
> MIME charset that I mentioned earlier.
Which most documents don't have..
> Note that the item under the Options pull-down menu entitled
> ``Language Encoding'' has nothing to do with this. What this does is to
> define the default charset assumed to be used by Web pages.
> The HTML spec specifies ISO-8859-1 to be the default encoding. That
> means, in the absence of any charset specification in the document, it is
> assumed to be Latin-1. Of course, this is useless in countries where
> Latin-1 encoding is not used, such as in SK/CZ, so pages have been created
> with a number of different byte->character mappings to match the displays
> available to the user. Until now, there has been no client support for the
> META charset tagging, so the best one could do was to use a different
> default font/charset-encoding. This is what is defined here.
This is what I need - I can read the Latin2 documents without editting
the app-defaults file, and even if they don't have the tag..
> If you spend time outside, such as in Germany, France, Scandinavia,
> and so on, those pages will use the Latin-1 encoding. Unfortunately,
> most of those pages will be without the META tagging, and will therefore
> display using the default character set you've specified, so you may have
> to change this encoding on-the-fly as you view documents to match the
> encoding in use.
That doesn't matter - they use little accented characters, which can be
easily guessed, and besides, Latin1 is similar to Latin2 in a', e' etc,
isn't it?
> As I mentioned, it would be nice if all documents were to include a
> tagging to guarantee that the displayed text matches. However, the
> burden falls on non-ASCII or non-Latin-1 documents, which would include
> virtually all Czech/Slovak pages with diacritics.
Maybe add this tag to WWWdia and use it only on ISO-LATIN-2 pages?
> Exactly. In the absence of a META tag describing the charset, it is
> assumed to be Latin-1, or more correctly, it is displayed with the
> default Language Encoding which you have selected. In order for this
> automatic switching to work, the META tag mentioned in my earlier
> message must be included in the document.
I selected the default charset as Latin2, and it was still Latin1, but
that's, I guess because I didn't select the proper Latin2 fonts..
> If you want the ISO Latin-2 documents which you serve to always
> display correctly when viewed by this latest Netscape, then you must add
> this tagging. Without it, it will not work automagically.
The problem is, that the common czech web addition, WWWdia, doesn't do
this.. :-(
Thanks again,
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:45:17 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: netscape character set
BTW, we got a lot of Latin2 (Arial, Times, New Century, Courier) fonts
with our Ultrix (DECS) upgrade.. Maybe other Czech vendors (Sun? I saw
Czech version of OpenWindows on Invex) will supply us with the ISO-Latin2
fonts, too..
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:56:47 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Hrdonka
Organization: EUnet Czech Republic
Subject: smajliky
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Mohl by mi nekdo vysvetlit vyznam ruznych "smajliku"? Pouzivam pouze
:-) a :-( a obcas je to malo. Taky by me zajimaly zkratky, jako napr.
BTW, FYI, IMHO, atd. Tyhle znam, ale jine treba ne. Oboji staci jen bezne
pouzivane. Samozrejme se spokojim s odkazem, kde to najit (vim, ze existuje
kniha, ale kupovat si ji kvuli tomu nebudu). Predem mnohokrat diky.
H.
- --
Jan Hrdonka
(PGP key: send email with Subject: request pgp key)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6
iQBVAgUBMMNuDb3zMPK67ALlAQH4HwH/QKZEmpeXrxNP9dK41Q9Budtt3unq1JuC
TOhKJW16V/0Az7LMoDS38bT8WrAYglmbPLgfewJ9zEtlcwqlBr4tBA==
=Eq0i
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 01:17:42 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: guest
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: netscape character set
As usual, ignore the From: field.
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
> BTW, we got a lot of Latin2 (Arial, Times, New Century, Courier) fonts
> with our Ultrix (DECS) upgrade.. Maybe other Czech vendors (Sun? I saw
> Czech version of OpenWindows on Invex) will supply us with the ISO-Latin2
> fonts, too..
Digital has a wide selection of ISO 8859-2 fonts; Sun and SGI have a
smaller number. All these vendors have additional fonts for the other
ISO 8859 subsets (perhaps excluding -6, Arabic, and -10). However,
unlike the fonts available from MULE or individuals, these fonts are, to
the best of my knowledge, copyrighted and not to be redistributed. Those
fonts which were supplied with X11R6(5) were donated to the X Consortium
(MIT).
If these companies were to donate the fonts (hint), it would be very
welcome. Otherwise, I would not put them on a public fontserver (for use
with xset) or redistribute them without permission.
Barry Bouwsma
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:34:52 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Barryr Bowsma
Subject: Re: more messages about Netscape and charsets
X-cc: barryb@tuke.sk
In-Reply-To:
Once again, forget the From: field. Diky...
On 4 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
> > *provided* that the document describes itself with the META tag for
> > MIME charset that I mentioned earlier.
>
> Which most documents don't have..
...and that is why I bring this up. Because this is a new feature, it
would be good to make this widely known and incorporate it as quickly as
possible into Web tools and use.
> > ``Language Encoding'' has nothing to do with this. What this does is to
> > define the default charset assumed to be used by Web pages.
>
> This is what I need - I can read the Latin2 documents without editting
> the app-defaults file, and even if they don't have the tag..
Correct. It works as long as you limit yourself to a particular
encoding. But better is to charset tag a page, for the benefit of
browsers which are not configured for Latin-2 default, and for people who
wander in from outside and for whom the default charset would be
something different.
Until charset tagging gets added to most documents, you'll probably
have to make sure your default charset is configured for the particular
document you are viewing. But this is what you've had to do so far.
> > If you spend time outside, such as in Germany, France, Scandinavia,
> > [...] you may have
> > to change this encoding on-the-fly as you view documents to match the
> > encoding in use.
>
> That doesn't matter - they use little accented characters, which can be
> easily guessed, and besides, Latin1 is similar to Latin2 in a', e' etc,
> isn't it?
There is some overlap betwen the two, yes. All the common German
characters are the same, but only about half of the French characters
will be identical.
Personally, I'd rather every page be displayed as it's intended
automatically. This would become more important as Netscape adds support
for non-Roman alphabets (such as the pages one can find in Greek). And
while it is possible to read a document with a few wrong characters, it
is not particularly pleasant. But this is a personal preference.
Remember, the computer is supposed to serve you, rather than making you a
slave to it (like I should talk at 2 in the morning).
> Maybe add this tag to WWWdia and use it only on ISO-LATIN-2 pages?
I am not familiar with WWWdia. But the META tag for MIME charset
will probably work for all encodings, not only ISO-8859-2. At present,
Netscape only claims support for a handful of encodings, but I'm sure it
will increase in the future. So you can add the tag, but with no
guarantee that it will be understood yet, and at worst the browser will
ignore it.
> I selected the default charset as Latin2, and it was still Latin1, but
> that's, I guess because I didn't select the proper Latin2 fonts..
This should not happen, unless you have no Latin-2 fonts available.
Netscape will automatically use some Latin-2 font it can find.
> The problem is, that the common czech web addition, WWWdia, doesn't do
> this.. :-(
So, maybe someone wants to add this function? It would be very
useful.
(I am assuming that WWWdia takes a document in one encoding and performs
the character mapping needed to serve the document in any of a number of
charset encodings -- at least, I've seen that many servers allow you to
select the default encoding to match your display. In such a case, it
should be no problem to have this META tag added to every document
served out, filling in the value based on the selected encoding, so that
a charset=CP852 tagging is added to PC-Latin-2 text, CP1250 to CE
Windoze, and so on. This should not break anything, and according to the
MIME spec, a smart browser would display the proper characters no matter
what encoding is selected. If I'm wrong about WWWdia, please correct me
nicely in private e-mail, as I'm sure everyone else already knows -- thanks)
Barry Bouwsma
MZLU Brno, CZ
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 06:51:05 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Haderka
Subject: Re: smajliky
>
> Mohl by mi nekdo vysvetlit vyznam ruznych "smajliku"? Pouzivam pouze
> :-) a :-( a obcas je to malo. Taky by me zajimaly zkratky, jako napr.
> BTW, FYI, IMHO, atd. Tyhle znam, ale jine treba ne. Oboji staci jen bezne
> pouzivane. Samozrejme se spokojim s odkazem, kde to najit (vim, ze existuje
> kniha, ale kupovat si ji kvuli tomu nebudu). Predem mnohokrat diky.
>
> H.
BTW (by the way) mimochodem
OBTW (Oh, by the way) Och, mimochodem
OTOH (on the other hand) na druhou stranu
OIC (Oh, I see) Aha!
MHO (in my humble opinion) podle meho skromneho nazoru
ASAP (as soon as possible) co nejdrive, jak to jen bude mozne
L8R (later) pozdeji
CUL8R (See yoy later!) Uvidime se pozdeji! - pozdrav na rozloucenou
TTFN (Ta Ta for now) pozdrav na rozloucenou, asi jako: Zatim pa, pa
WRT (with respect to) s ohledem na
FYI (for your information) pro tvoji informaci
SWAK (sealed with a kiss) speceteno polibkem
FMPOV (from my point of view) z meho pohledu
H! WYM (Hey! Watch your mouth!) Hej! Davej pozor, co rikas!
Emotikony (nazorna ukazka pouze nekterych):
:-) humor
:-))-: maskovani teatralnich poznamek
'-) mrknuti
P-) pirat
;-) sardonicka neduverivost
(@@) Ty zertujes!
:-" sespulene rty
:-V krik
:-r "ble" (vystrceny jazyk)
<:-O "Iiiik!"
:-* "Uops" (prekvapeni, rozpaky na tim, co jste prave provedli)
:-o dalsi verze kriku
:-{ hrabe Drakula
:-# cenzorovano
:~i koureni
:-I Je to neco, ale nevim co...
:-x polibek
:-> jiny stastny oblicej
:-( nestastny
:-c opravdu nestastny
:-C neverici
:-< ztraceny, opusteny
:-B plavajici nesmysly
:-I zhnuseny
:-? olizujici si rty
<:>== krocani emotikon
:-):-):-) nebo :-))))) hlucny smich
(:-) zpravy pojednavajici o cyklistickych prilbach
<:-) pro pitome otazky
B-) smejici se s brylemi/zprava od Batmana
8-) vyvalene oci
8-)))) vyvalene oci a hlucny smich
:-o "Ach, neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
|-( pozde - nocni zpravy
(:<) zprava tykajici se zvanivyvh ust
+<:-| zprava od mnicha/jeptisky
{O-) zprava od Kyklopu
...---... S.O.S.
@%&&%$ Ty vis co to znamena
(-_-) tajny usmev
<{:-)} zprava v lahvi ....
(:-... srdcervouci zprava
(:>-< zprava od zlodeje: Ruce vzhuru!
-<|= zprava o zajmu k zenam
O>8<|= zprava o zajimavych zenach
:-) Zakladni smich; tento smich pouzijete, kdyz vas rozesmeje
nejaka zprava, kdyz si z nekoho delate legraci atd.
;-) Mrknuti se smichem, pouziva se pri tzv. koketovani, popr. k
sarkasticke poznamce-tuto znacku je treba brat s rezervou.
:-( Zamraceni-opak smichu, reakce na zpravu/oznameni, ktere vas
zklamalo, pobourilo, nebo ve vas vyvolalo depresi.
:-> Pripojuje se ke skutecne stiplave sarkasticke poznamce, kde
nestaci :-) (presny preklad jedne vysvetlivky: uzivatel
prave napsal skutecne dabelskou poznamku ...).
;-> Mrknuti s dabelskym usmevem ...
:-7 Uzivatel se kysele usklibl.
:-* Uzivatel prave snedl neco trpkeho.
:-~) Uzivatel ma rymu.
:'-( Uzivatel place.
:'-) Uzivatel je velmi stastny, place smichy.
:-D Uzivatel se "rehta" (tobe!).
:-\ Uzivatel je skeptik.
:-o o, oh, uh ...
(8-o to je Mr. Bill!
':-) Uzivatel si rano oholil jedno oboci.
X-( Uzivatel prave zemrel.
:-/ Nerozhodny vyraz.
:-< Vyraz tragedie.
:-? Uzivatel kouri dymku.
:-# Uzivatel s ksandami.
:*) Uzivatel je opily.
8-) Uzivatel nosi bryle.
[:] Uzivatel je robot.
B:-) Uzivatel ma bryle na cele.
:-{) Uzivatel nosi knir.
:-{} Uzivatel pouziva rtenku.
8:-) Uzivatel je mala holcicka.
:-)-8 Uzivatel je zrala zena.
:-[ Uzivatel je upir.
:^) Uzivatel s natlucenym nosem.
-:-) Pankac.
+-:-) Zprava od papeze.
|-I Uzivatel usina.
:-Q Kurak.
O:-) Svetec, andel.
:-p Uzivatel na vas vyplazl jazyk.
:-S Reakce na nesmyslnou poznamku.
C=:-) Uzivatel je sef.
:-X Uzivatel ma zalepena usta.
*:o) Klaun.
[:-) Uzivatel posloucha walkman.
@:-) Uzivatel nosi turban.
:-q Usmev s pokusem dotknout se jazykem nosu.
:-e Zklamany usmev.
Honza
--
:-) ___^___
( _____ )-------- __^__ ----------------------------(
_____/ % __(_____)__ %
__/ ( _________ )
__/ % %
/__^___ % % ___^___/
( _____ )----------------------------------------------------( _____ )
\ \ / Jan Haderka Email: Haderka@fch.vutbr.cz \ / /
/ \ \ System Administrator / / \
( () ) the Faculty of Voice: ++42 5 4332 1295 /13 ( () )
\ \ / Chemistry VUT Brno __ Fax: ++42 5 4321 1101 \ / /
/ \ \ 637 00 Brno _(__)_ / / \
( () ) Czech Republic ( ____ ) ( () )
\ \ / |####| \ \ /
/ \ \ ____________________|####|___________________________/ \ \_/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ / / ~~~ ____ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /
_________________________ / /____ / \_____________________/
( ( | \
\ \ _ / /\ \
\ /
\_____/
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:38:16 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vacek Vaclav MD
Subject: Re: smajliky
In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:56:47 GMT from
pomoci ftp si lze stahnout ze serveru univscvm.csd.sc.edu adresar
bck2skl.191 radu souboru nazvanych bck2skol.lesson.. ve kterych je
velmi pekny zakladni kurs internetu a jeden soubor je venovan
netiquette. Tam jsou vsechny smajliky i zkratky i jine uzitecne veci.
S pozdravem vacek
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:38:24 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Petr Novotny
Subject: [Q:] Prodej hudebnich CD na Inetu
X-To: litera@ccsun.tuke.sk
Dobry den,
rad bych se zeptal, kde se na Internetu da dostat na nejake WWW
stranky (pokud mozno s moznosti objednavky) firem zabyvajicich se
prodejem ci distribuci hudebnich CD. (Zatim jsem nasel jen Atlantic
na adrese http://zoso.com; slysel jsem o jakemsi CDNow, ale nejak se
tam nemuzu dostat.)
Zajem mam o jakekoliv namety a napady.
Dekuji.
/.-../../..-././/../...//.-../../-.-/.//-/...././/-.../---/-..-//---/..-.//
"So long, shrimp," Legolam said to Gimlet. | Feanor
"Be seein' ya, creep," replied the dwarf. |
"Lo!" exclaimed Arrowroot, rising from his knees.| Petr Novotny, Prague
"If he says that once more," said Gimlet, "I'll | Czech Republic
croak him myself." |
Bored of the Rings | novotnyp@troja.fjfi.cvut.cz
//-.-./..../---/-.-./---/.-../.-/-/./...//
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:50:13 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Petr Novotny
Subject: [Q:] Hudebni CD - doplneni
X-To: litera@ccsun.tuke.sk
Zdravim,
prave se mi podarilo probit se do http://cdnow.com, ted se tam jdu
hrabat. Mate s nimi nekdo nejake zkusenosti???
/.-../../..-././/../...//.-../../-.-/.//-/...././/-.../---/-..-//---/..-.//
"So long, shrimp," Legolam said to Gimlet. | Feanor
"Be seein' ya, creep," replied the dwarf. |
"Lo!" exclaimed Arrowroot, rising from his knees.| Petr Novotny, Prague
"If he says that once more," said Gimlet, "I'll | Czech Republic
croak him myself." |
Bored of the Rings | novotnyp@troja.fjfi.cvut.cz
//-.-./..../---/-.-./---/.-../.-/-/./...//
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:15:59 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
Dobry den,
Mam jednoduchy dotaz: Mate nekdo PRAKTICKE zkusenosti s pouzivanim
MAIL602 ve verzi 3.0? Myslim tim zkusenosti s kvalitou,
pouzitelnosti, univerzalnosti a standardnosti klientu a serveru?
Mozna bych uvital i nazory na verzi starsi 2.0. 3.0 je na trhu preci
jen par mesicu.
Za vsechny namety a pripominky dekuji
Napiste prosim na adresu: kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Martin Kamin
----------------------------------------------------------
Redakce casopisu Connect!
Computer Press, spol. s r. o.
Haasova 27, Brno, 616 00
tel. (05) 4121 8350, 4124 0093-4
fax (05) 4124 0845
kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:12:11 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: more messages about Netscape and charsets
On 5 Dec 1995, Barryr Bowsma wrote:
> ...and that is why I bring this up. Because this is a new feature, it
> would be good to make this widely known and incorporate it as quickly as
> possible into Web tools and use.
Is this + encoding tag already in the HTML3 specs? Or is it just
another "Netscape initiative"?
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:29:43 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:15:59 +0100 you wrote:
>Dobry den,
>
>Mam jednoduchy dotaz: Mate nekdo PRAKTICKE zkusenosti s pouzivanim
>MAIL602 ve verzi 3.0? Myslim tim zkusenosti s kvalitou,
>pouzitelnosti, univerzalnosti a standardnosti klientu a serveru?
>Mozna bych uvital i nazory na verzi starsi 2.0. 3.0 je na trhu preci
>jen par mesicu.
>
Veskrze kladne, pred lety jsem postavil celou vnitrofiremni komunikaci
na Mailu (2.0 jeste tehdy snad dokonce) od S602 a po pocatecni
neduvere jsem byl velice prijemne prekvapen. Ted si bez nej nedokazu
predstavit zivot. S602 navic zachovala prizen svemu programu a
vyresila radu problemu na ktere jsme narazili - vcetne treba i toho ze
jej uvedla do stavu kdy bezi v WIN-OS/2 bez problemu (problemy byly se
sitovou komunikaci) atp.
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 00:42:50 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Tomas Kucera
Subject: Re: [Q:] Prodej hudebnich CD na Inetu
In-Reply-To: <259C597C56@troja.fjfi.cvut.cz> from "Petr Novotny" at Dec 5,
95 10:38:24 pm
>
> Dobry den,
>
> rad bych se zeptal, kde se na Internetu da dostat na nejake WWW
> stranky (pokud mozno s moznosti objednavky) firem zabyvajicich se
> prodejem ci distribuci hudebnich CD. (Zatim jsem nasel jen Atlantic
> na adrese http://zoso.com; slysel jsem o jakemsi CDNow, ale nejak se
> tam nemuzu dostat.)
>
> Zajem mam o jakekoliv namety a napady.
>
Muzete zkusit telnet na cdconnection.com pro zvukova CDcka nebo na
cdromsonline.com pro CD-ROM. Ale mam pocit ze se to nevyplati protoze jsou tyto
firmy obecne drazsi nez v obchode.
Tomas Kucera
Tomas Kucera, [ Centrum ADAM AMAVET, NICEM; Senovazna 2, Praha 1, Czech Rep. ]
[ FidoNet: 2:420/100.206, InterNet: kucera@adam.anet.cz ]
[ BBS: bbs.adam.anet.cz; FTP: ftp.adam.anet.cz (14-00 CET) ]
[ CoSysOp of ADAM BBS, 2:420/100; student of MFF UK, Prague ]
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:54:05 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jaromir Krepelka
Organization: Palacky Univ. Department of Optics
Subject: Re: Prodej CD
> Dobry den,
> rad bych se zeptal, kde se na Internetu da dostat na nejake WWW
> stranky (pokud mozno s moznosti objednavky) firem zabyvajicich se
> prodejem ci distribuci hudebnich CD. (Zatim jsem nasel jen Atlantic
> na adrese http://zoso.com; slysel jsem o jakemsi CDNow, ale nejak se
> tam nemuzu dostat.)
Zkuste http://cdnow.com
Jaromir
krepelka@risc.upol.cz
http://risc.upol.cz/~krepelka/welcome.html
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:17:50 MEZ-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Zdenek Kolka
Organization: TU Brno, Dept. of Radioelectronics
Subject: Databaze platcu DPH
Zdravim,
Nenarazil jste nekdo pri toulkach Internetem na databazi platcu DPH ?
=================================================================
Zdenek KOLKA
-----------------------------------------------------------------
kolka@urel.fee.vutbr.cz Inst. of Radioelectronics, TU Brno
+42-5-41321275 /332 Antoninska 1, 662 09 Brno, Czech Republic
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:22:54 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Tomas Vild
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <199512061121.AA06028@dior.ics.muni.cz> from "Martin Kamin" at
Dec 6, 95 12:15:59 pm
Pouzivejte elm, je standardni najdete jej vsude a nejsou smim zadne
problemy.
zdravi
Tom Vild, EUnet CZ
tom@EUnet.cz
PS: a nemusite s nim mit ZADNE zkusenosti!!
> Dobry den,
>
> Mam jednoduchy dotaz: Mate nekdo PRAKTICKE zkusenosti s pouzivanim
> MAIL602 ve verzi 3.0? Myslim tim zkusenosti s kvalitou,
> pouzitelnosti, univerzalnosti a standardnosti klientu a serveru?
> Mozna bych uvital i nazory na verzi starsi 2.0. 3.0 je na trhu preci
> jen par mesicu.
>
> Za vsechny namety a pripominky dekuji
>
> Napiste prosim na adresu: kamin@cpress.anet.cz
>
> Martin Kamin
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Redakce casopisu Connect!
> Computer Press, spol. s r. o.
> Haasova 27, Brno, 616 00
> tel. (05) 4121 8350, 4124 0093-4
> fax (05) 4124 0845
> kamin@cpress.anet.cz
>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:24:00 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Subject: Re: Prodej CD
In-Reply-To: <235DD843DDB@optnw.upol.cz>
A nebo zkus http://www.lycos.com, query CD sale nebo tak neco..
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:53:20 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:22:54 +0100 you wrote:
>Pouzivejte elm, je standardni najdete jej vsude a nejsou smim zadne
>problemy.
>
>PS: a nemusite s nim mit ZADNE zkusenosti!!
Heh, jasne, zkousel jsem to - odradilo me:
- nutnost to vubec jakkoliv konfigurovat
- problemy s cestinou
- potreba mit to lokalizovane
Mimo to, to ma nekolik dalsih nevyhod
- nemoznost spoluprace s MHS, NetWorem, Faxem, Teletextem
- nutnost existence internetu
Tezko se da srovnavat MaiL602 a ELM - oboje je totiz o necem jinem....
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:37:41 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
Daniel Docekal v poslednim dopise z 7 Dec 95 pise:
> On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:22:54 +0100 you wrote:
>
> >Pouzivejte elm, je standardni najdete jej vsude a nejsou smim zadne
> >problemy.
> >
> >PS: a nemusite s nim mit ZADNE zkusenosti!!
>
> Heh, jasne, zkousel jsem to - odradilo me:
>
> - nutnost to vubec jakkoliv konfigurovat
> - problemy s cestinou
> - potreba mit to lokalizovane
>
> Mimo to, to ma nekolik dalsih nevyhod
>
> - nemoznost spoluprace s MHS, NetWorem, Faxem, Teletextem
> - nutnost existence internetu
>
> Tezko se da srovnavat MaiL602 a ELM - oboje je totiz o necem jinem....
>
> Daniel
Pan Daniel Docekal me v odpovedi predbehl...
Omlouvam se, ma uvodni otazka na 602MAIL byla smerovana, zda
s tim ma nekdo prakticke zkusenosti, takze odpovedi stylu ELM
je lepsi mi moc nepomohou (z elmu jsem trochu vyrostl - bez urazky) z
mnoha a dalsich vyse uvedenych duvodu...
Zatim moc dekuji za odpovedi na toto tema. Velice pozorne jsem si
vsechno prostudoval.
Martin Kamin
----------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Martin Kamin
Redakce casopisu Connect!
Computer Press, spol. s r. o.
Haasova 27, Brno, 616 00
tel. (05) 4121 8350, 4124 0093-4
fax (05) 4124 0845
kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 15:57:02 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Martin Vystavil
Subject: *** Vianocne prekvapenie ! ***
X-To: mst-l@savba.savba.sk, sme-l@savba.savba.sk,
karmel@savba.savba.sk, sanet-l@ccsun.tuke.sk
Pekne a pokojne Vianoce !
* Takto v predstihu Vam zelame pekne sviatky aj preto, aby ste si u nas mohli
vybrat darcek na buduci rok. Pod stromcek prispeli dennik SME,
tyzdennik TREND, nakladatelstvo Navrat domov (a cakame dalsich).
http://www.savba.sk/logos/list-e.html
obsahuje priamu linku, na ktorej si mozete darceky vybrat (!)
a ti, ktorych vylosujeme ich aj dostanu. (;-)
* Najdete tam vsak aj linku na TREND online
http://www.savba.sk/logos/news/trend/tis/
ktora je darcekom hlavne pre citatelov TRENDu.
Verime, ze nam zachovate priazen aj v buducom roku
Za Slovakia online
Martin
--
Martin Vystavil Email: vystavil@savba.sk
Computing Center Voice: +42-7-374-422
the Slovak Academy of Sciences Fax : +42-7-375-881
Dubravska cesta 9 PGP : ftp.savba.sk/pub/PGPkeys
Bratislava 842 35, Slovak Republic WWW : http://www.savba.sk/~comcmavy/
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:38:57 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Hrdonka
Organization: EUnet Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Martin Kamin (kamin%CPRESS.ANET.CZ@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
: Daniel Docekal v poslednim dopise z 7 Dec 95 pise:
[...]
: Pan Daniel Docekal me v odpovedi predbehl...
: Omlouvam se, ma uvodni otazka na 602MAIL byla smerovana, zda
: s tim ma nekdo prakticke zkusenosti, takze odpovedi stylu ELM
: je lepsi mi moc nepomohou (z elmu jsem trochu vyrostl - bez urazky) z
: mnoha a dalsich vyse uvedenych duvodu...
: Zatim moc dekuji za odpovedi na toto tema. Velice pozorne jsem si
: vsechno prostudoval.
Mel bych take nejake dotazy k 602Mail. Omluvte me, jestli budou hloupe,
nic o tom nevim.
1) umi 602Mail IMAP nebo POP3 (resp. POP2+SMTP) protokol (via winsocks)?
2) umel by spojeni UUCP protokolem (via modem nebo over TCP/IP via winsocks)?
pozn.: oboji bud sam anebo i prostrednictvim nejake (funkcni) gateway
(pak samozrejme necht je protokol mezi 602Mail a branou libovolny)
3) umi kodovani MIME (nebo alespon UUENCODE)?
4) kolik to stoji (602Mail, popr. nejaka gateway)?
Diky za odpoved.
H.
PS: taky nedam dopustit na elm, ale 99% uzivatelu bych ho urcite
nedoporucil :-7
- --
Jan Hrdonka
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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:26:52 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Slegr
Subject: Re: Pristup k zaznamu v databazi
>nevi nekdo o databazovem systemu (lokalni hracka typu Paradox, Access
>nebo db-server), ktery by _systemove_ (tzn. neni potreba/mozno nebo
>nutno programovat) podporoval ochranu dat na urovni pristupovych prav
>k jednotlivym zaznamum (tzn. aby se mimo jine ke kazdemu zaznamu/vete
>evidoval - bylo mozno - majitel, vznik), bylo mozno urcit pro koho (s
>vyuzitim standardniho bezpecnostniho systemu, tzn. skupiny uzivatelu,
>ktere maji jaky typ pristupu) je zaznam jak pristupny, pripadne
>definovat pravidla (pro tu kterou tabulku v databazi - standardni
>nastaveni)?
1.) Ruzna prava k ruznym tabulkam (jako ruznym objektum) jsou
myslim v systemech jako Access, Pdox (a dalsi Borland produkty)
samozrejma: opravneni uzivatelu a skupin pro ruzne operace.
2.) Pristupem k jednotlivym zaznamum predpokladam myslite k jednotlivym
vetam tabulky, nikoli k jednotlivym polozkam (polim, ci atributum).
Pomoci by Vam mozna mohla WinBase602. Nekterymy rysy jiz nalezi k postrelacnim
databazim - napriklad vicehodnotovymi polozkami.
WinBase ma specialni typy polozek pro
- ukladani jmen autoru zmen obsahu jine polozky, pro kterou je urcena (A)
- ukladani casu techto zmen (B)
- ukladani minulych hodnot polozky (cca 64 000x) (C)
Vhodnou pozici techto typu ve strukture tabulky lze dosahnout take sledovani
autora a data jakekoli zmeny v hodnotach polozek (cele tabulky).
Dotazem na pritomnost urciteho jmena ve sledovaci polozce by dany uzivatel
mohl v pohledu do odpovedi pracovat pouze se svymi zaznamy (vyzkousim to).
(Pohled do dotazu by pro tento pripad byl hlavnim uzivatelskym rozhranim)
Jinym reseni, ktere vsak nepokryva moznosti B a C, je pro urcitou
retezcovou polozku stanovit specialni implicitni hodnotu, ktera bude
zapisovat jmeno uzivatele, ovsem pouze pri vlozeni zaznamu. Na hodnotu
teto polozky se lze velice jednoduse dotazovat. Toto reseni je
pravdepodobne dostupne tez u konkurence.
Dodavam, ze ad 1 i prava k jednotlivym polozkam tabulky jsou ve WinBase
samozrejma.
Preji mnoho uspechu
S pozdravem
Petr Slegr
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:27:58 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:38:57 GMT you wrote:
>1) umi 602Mail IMAP nebo POP3 (resp. POP2+SMTP) protokol (via winsocks)?
Ne, Mail602 je posta pro PC prostredi nezavisle na siti, tj. _neni_
zavisle na vecech,ktere se vyskytuji v Internetu. Je to totez jako
byste se ptal zda MicrosoftMail nebo ccMail umi POP3 :)
Mail602 nicmene vlastni branu pro styk s Internetem a ta umoznuje UUCP
napojeni, na dalsim se pracuje.
>3) umi kodovani MIME (nebo alespon UUENCODE)?
Umi MIME, UUENCODE/UUDECODE nikoliv.
>4) kolik to stoji (602Mail, popr. nejaka gateway)?
Ceniky prodejcu, zavisi na poctu uzivatelu.
D.
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:05:43 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Pazdziora
Organization: Masaryk University,Brno
Subject: Re: www
ag786@YFN.YSU.EDU (Barry Bouwsma) writes:
> >lokalni verzi programu klient pro www ?
> If this is not well known already, the beta releases of Netscape2.0
> offer support for automatic switching between the Latin-1 character set
> as used in the majority of western European documents and the default,
> and a handful of other encodings, including the ISO 8859-2 encoding which
> would be used in pages written in Czech and Slovak.
> This is accomplished by the META tag which should be added to an HTML
> document body as follows to give it a MIME charset tagging...
>
> When these new versions of Netscape encounter such a document, they
> will attempt to display it with a Latin-2 font, provided one is available.
> A stupid example of this, which was primarily written to demonstrate
> this ability of Netscape, can be found temporarily at:
> http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/
Thank you for this hint. Yesterday I downloaded the latest version of
netscape and it seems to be rather useful. Really, in options/general
preferences/fons you can tell what fonts to use for particular encoding
(previous versions of 2.0 netscape didn't allow that). Also, the META
flag in the home page works, except for:
Netscape: Error
reentrant call to Interrupt window
Netscape starts to display the page in iso-8859-1, then displays the
message and switches into Latin-2. Is this a bug or feature? Is this
a problem with me or with netscape? Has anybody the same problem? It
doesn't happen if I have default lagnuage encoding set to Central
Europe. It doesn't really hurt, just slows things down and fills my
screen with those little windows :-)
Once again, thank you for the META idea and for the discussion that
is taking place now.
--adelton
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honza Pazdziora | adelton@fi.muni.cz | http://www.fi.muni.cz/~adelton/
Linux instead. Never say never.
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:29:37 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Barryr Bowsma
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: META HTTP-EQUIV and Netscape2.0
On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
> Is this + encoding tag already in the HTML3 specs? Or is it just
> another "Netscape initiative"?
Here is how I understand it from reading the following documents...
The tag
is supposed to appear in the of a document, as it will tell the
server information to be passed along to the client. See:
http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html3/dochead.html
No reference is made to this tag in the of the document.
According to the section:
http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html3/HTMLandMIME.html
the only value that is defined even in the proposed HTML3 spec still
remains ISO-8859-1, which is also assumed to be the default. But it is
recognized that a much wider range of charsets is needed.
What this seems to mean is that for now, this is Yet Another
where they are implementing functions not yet
in the spec but that they feel should be there. However, this is not a
new tag, but simply an extension of the permitted values of one of the
parameters which is well-defined by the standards-track MIME document.
Okay, so after reading this (and I am not at all an expert on HTML),
I changed the document which can be found at
http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/czdocs.html
so that this META tag is found in the header, rather than in the body, as
the above-mentioned dochead.html suggests.
Now, when I use the configuration of Netscape which follows the spec
of assuming documents are Latin-1 unless stated otherwise, this page
displays with the Latin-1 equivalents of the intended Latin-2
characters. (The other Czech music page, which has this META tag in the
BODY of the document, displays properly, with the pop-up warnings noted
below.)
I am not the administrator of this WWW server, but it could be that
it fails to deliver these HTTP-EQUIV tags as headers in the HTTP dialog.
Perhaps if the server were a HTML3 server (I am assuming it is an HTML2
server, and I am assuming the HTML2 spec does not support META HTTP-EQUIV
although I have not checked this), it might deliver the information to
the client Netscape when the tag appears in the HEAD.
On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Jan Pazdziora wrote:
> Also, the META
> flag in the home page works, except for:
>
> Netscape: Error
> reentrant call to Interrupt window
>
> Netscape starts to display the page in iso-8859-1, then displays the
> message and switches into Latin-2. Is this a bug or feature? Is this
> a problem with me or with netscape? Has anybody the same problem?
Yes, I see the same pop-up windows. But not always. And sometimes I
see a different message, like Newsgroups: %s or something like that.
I'm running two platforms with different versions of Netscape, and
the display often redirected to a third platform. There have been times
when this error has not popped up, but it seems to pop up most of the
time for me. But as long as my default charset is different from that
specified by this tag, I first see the document in the default character
set, then it seems to be re-read and re-dsisplayed as intended.
No, it's not a feature. It could be reported as a bug to Netscape,
because these are beta releases, and if it is really a bug, it might be
fixed in the next beta release.
But as I mention above, technically this META HTTP-EQUIV tag should
appear in the HEAD of the document as information for the server. With
the server here, that does not work. Perhaps someone with a more recent
server can see if it will work better. (Also, the version=3D3.0 could be
included in this HTTP-EQUIV to clearly mark the document as HTML3, as
noted somewhere in the above-mentioned w3.org server.)
That is more than I know now; I hope it's helpful. And should anyone
have success with their server and this tag defining the charset in the
HEAD of a document, I would like to hear about it...
Thanks,
Barry Bouwsma
MZLU v Brn=EC, =C8R
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:02:18 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?krem=BEsk=E1_HO=D8=C8ICE?=
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: META HTTP-EQUIV and Netscape2.0
To follow-up my previous posting, here are some references I did not
mention in that message, and a follow-up to my observations...
On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Barryr (*AHEM*) Barry Bouwsma wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
>
> > Is this + encoding tag already in the HTML3 specs? Or is it just
> > another "Netscape initiative"?
>
> Here is how I understand it from reading the following documents...
The release notes describing this capability of Nutscape can be found at
http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/2.0/relnotes/unix-2.0b2.html#Languages
(Presumably the non-Unix flavors of Netscape have similar pages, although
I have not taken the time to reference these.)
> According to the section:
> http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/html3/HTMLandMIME.html
> the only value that is defined even in the proposed HTML3 spec still
> remains ISO-8859-1, which is also assumed to be the default.
Extensions to this are specified in the Internet Draft, which can be
found in your nearest repository, as draft-ietf-html-i18n-02.txt
The internet-draft repository closest to me, if you do not know the
location of the server nearest you with these documents, is
ftp://ftp.muni.cz/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-html-i18n-02.txt.Z
Discussion of this can be found in section 6 of this document,
found shortly before halfway through it.
To summarize, three methods are offered -- the server charset
parameter, which it is noted that most servers ignore, but should be
taken to be the most authoritative; the META tag in the document HEAD,
which suddenly now seems to work for me -- I wonder what I just did...
and the CHARSET value of a document which refers to the document with the
non-default encoding.
Again, this is an Internet Draft, and may or may not be accepted.
> I changed the document which can be found at
> http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/czdocs.html
> so that this META tag is found in the header, rather than in the body
...and while it did not work earlier, it works now, without the
pop-up windows that had been experienced earlier. So you can safely
ignore about half of my previous message in which I wondered about this.
Barry Bouwsma,
sorry to be writing in English, but I hope you find this information
useful in spite of that...
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 11:48:04 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vaclav Trojan
Subject: Internet na Ukrajine
Mili delnici siti,
pojedu na Ukrajinu a rad bych pri te prilezitosti pomohl pratelum
z tamnejsich nevladnich organizaci s pripojenim na Internet. Nemate
nekdo zkusenosti s tim, jak to dnes na Ukrajine (Kijev, Simferopol)
delaji?
s pranim prijemnych vanoc a vseho dobreho
Vaclav Trojan
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:07:56 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Jak zabranit nechtene poste?
Chtel bych se vsech zucastnenych optati, jak bychom se mohli branit
proti zcela nechtene a drze opet a opet posilane poste. Narazim na p.
Starmana ze stejnojmenne s.r.o., ktery neni sdostatek vychovany k
tomu, aby prestal posilat sve komercni blaboly kudy to jenom jde. Mam
v zive pameti jeho nabidky poslane do vetsiny konferenci a mam bohuzel
neustale problemy s jeho slabomyslnymi napady posilat postu na vsechny
adresy, ktere ho jenom napadnou.
Existuje nejaky zpusob jak mu zabranit v obtezovani ostatnich?
Existuje nejaky zpusob jak mu hlavne zabranit posilat mail na adresy
kde za to lide zaplati? Onen jedinec totiz nema ani dostatek slusnosti
k tomu aby pouzil .CZ domenu a posila si to ze sve americke adresy....
Domluva s nim neexistuje, pokusil jsem se o to a jedina odpoved mi
byla dalsi zasilka slabomylsneho prani k vanocum.
Diky
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:04:01 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: Jak zabranit nechtene poste?
Vetsina listserveru (doufam) umoznuje ignorovat urcite e-mailove adresy
podle seznamu.. Jinak pokud jde o sankce, neni problem zakazat komukoliv
cokoliv (ftp,WWW..) proste danim prislusneho hostname do /etc/hosts.deny.
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 08:00:40 -0700
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Starman America Corporation
Subject: PF 1996
. God of our fathers, known of old,
.|. Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
..|.. Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
| Dominion over palm and pine -
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget - lest we forget!
(Recessional 1897 - Rudyard Kipling)
P.F. 1996 and Merry Christmas
from all of us at Starman Bohemia
Frank F. Starman - staram@srv.net ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
president Starman America Corporation, tel/fax: 001 - 208 - 529 - 0381
......... Starman Bohemia spol. s r.o. tel/fax: 42 - 2 - 24231933 ++++
......................... Konviktska 24, 11000 Praha 1, Stare Mesto ++
... http://www.srv.net/~staram/starman.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
..... Od roku 1991 rychly dovoz literatury a casopisu z Ameriky ++++++
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:16:55 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Re: PF 1996
BUDE TEN CLOVEK JESTE DLOUHO UTRACET MOJE PENIZE?
Zmuze neco admin teto konferenze?
Martin Kamin
> . God of our fathers, known of old,
> .|. Lord of our far-flung battle-line,
> ..|.. Beneath whose awful Hand we hold
> | Dominion over palm and pine -
> Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
> Lest we forget - lest we forget!
> (Recessional 1897 - Rudyard Kipling)
>
> P.F. 1996 and Merry Christmas
> from all of us at Starman Bohemia
>
>
> Frank F. Starman - staram@srv.net ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> president Starman America Corporation, tel/fax: 001 - 208 - 529 - 0381
> ......... Starman Bohemia spol. s r.o. tel/fax: 42 - 2 - 24231933 ++++
> ......................... Konviktska 24, 11000 Praha 1, Stare Mesto ++
> ... http://www.srv.net/~staram/starman.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ..... Od roku 1991 rychly dovoz literatury a casopisu z Ameriky ++++++
>
----------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Martin Kamin
Redakce casopisu Connect!
Computer Press, spol. s r. o.
Haasova 27, Brno, 616 00
tel. (05) 4121 8350, 4124 0093-4
fax (05) 4124 0845
kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:54:43 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: havran@INFIMA.CZ
Organization: >>> INFIMA BBS <<<
Subject: Euphorbia Intisy
* Carbons Sent to: /csinfo-l
/pokec
/jarmark
Vazeny uzivateli site Internet,
Mam doma nekolik uzasnych exempalru jeste uzasnejsi rostliny, o ktere
bohuzel vim prilis malo. Rostlina pravdepodobne pochazi z Madagaskaru a
tam se udajne vyskytuje vzacne. Je to sukulentni rostlina patrici do
skupiny I.A Euphorbiceae - 4.sekce Tirucalli - nazev Euphorbia Intisy.
Sem patri, jeste ji podobne rostliny Euphorbia Tirucalli a Ephorbia
Aphylla.
Bohuzel sem v dostupne literature zatim nenasel ani jedinou zminku o
teto rostline a cesky nazev teto rostliny neznam a domnivam se ze prav-
depodobne neni dosud pojmenovana.
Uvitam jakekoliv informace o teto rostline nebo o pribuznych rostlinach,
dale jakekoliv odkazy na dostupnou literaturu v jakemkoliv jazyce, dale pak
uvitam kontakty na jakekoliv pestitele sukulentnich rostlin, zejmena pak na
pestitele Euphorbii, kontakty na botanicke zahrady a spolky pestitelu kaktu-
su a sukulentnich rostlin a v neposledni rade take o informacich o regional-
nich casopisech a vestnicich zabyvajicich se touto tematikou, popr. rady kam
se obratit treba na Inetu.
Za jakekoliv informace budu nesmirne vdecny a za vynalozeni vasi namahy,
popr. za vyuziti vasich doporuceni jsem ochoten poskytnout finacni vyrovnani
dle vaseho pozadavku, mlade rizky teto rostliny nebo jakoukoliv jinou Vami
navrzenou kompenzaci.
Predem velice dekuji za spolupraci a jakekoliv informace zasilejte
na "Havran@Infima.cz" nebo telefonicky na 866604 vecer nebo pres
den zaznamnik, nebo do prace 24109406-7.
S pozdravem
Petr Havranek
... Tato zprava byla napsana dne: 10 Dec 95 v: 22:29:09 hodin...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:54:46 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: havran@INFIMA.CZ
Organization: >>> INFIMA BBS <<<
Subject: Euphorbia Intisy
* Original msg to: csinfo-l@earn.cvut.cz
* Carbons sent to: /pokec
/jarmark
Vazeny uzivateli site Internet,
Mam doma nekolik uzasnych exempalru jeste uzasnejsi rostliny, o ktere
bohuzel vim prilis malo. Rostlina pravdepodobne pochazi z Madagaskaru a
tam se udajne vyskytuje vzacne. Je to sukulentni rostlina patrici do
skupiny I.A Euphorbiceae - 4.sekce Tirucalli - nazev Euphorbia Intisy.
Sem patri, jeste ji podobne rostliny Euphorbia Tirucalli a Ephorbia
Aphylla.
Bohuzel sem v dostupne literature zatim nenasel ani jedinou zminku o
teto rostline a cesky nazev teto rostliny neznam a domnivam se ze prav-
depodobne neni dosud pojmenovana.
Uvitam jakekoliv informace o teto rostline nebo o pribuznych rostlinach,
dale jakekoliv odkazy na dostupnou literaturu v jakemkoliv jazyce, dale pak
uvitam kontakty na jakekoliv pestitele sukulentnich rostlin, zejmena pak na
pestitele Euphorbii, kontakty na botanicke zahrady a spolky pestitelu kaktu-
su a sukulentnich rostlin a v neposledni rade take o informacich o regional-
nich casopisech a vestnicich zabyvajicich se touto tematikou, popr. rady kam
se obratit treba na Inetu.
Za jakekoliv informace budu nesmirne vdecny a za vynalozeni vasi namahy,
popr. za vyuziti vasich doporuceni jsem ochoten poskytnout finacni vyrovnani
dle vaseho pozadavku, mlade rizky teto rostliny nebo jakoukoliv jinou Vami
navrzenou kompenzaci.
Predem velice dekuji za spolupraci a jakekoliv informace zasilejte
na "Havran@Infima.cz" nebo telefonicky na 866604 vecer nebo pres
den zaznamnik, nebo do prace 24109406-7.
S pozdravem
Petr Havranek
... Tato zprava byla napsana dne: 10 Dec 95 v: 22:29:09 hodin...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:25:51 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Slegr
Subject: Re: pristup k zaznamu v databazi
Doplnuji sam sebe:
>>nevi nekdo o databazovem systemu (lokalni hracka typu Paradox, Access
>>nebo db-server), ktery by _systemove_ (tzn. neni potreba/mozno nebo
>>nutno programovat) podporoval ochranu dat na urovni pristupovych prav
>>k jednotlivym zaznamum (tzn. aby se mimo jine ke kazdemu zaznamu/vete
>>evidoval - bylo mozno - majitel, vznik), bylo mozno urcit pro koho (s
>>vyuzitim standardniho bezpecnostniho systemu, tzn. skupiny uzivatelu,
>>ktere maji jaky typ pristupu) je zaznam jak pristupny, pripadne
>>definovat pravidla (pro tu kterou tabulku v databazi - standardni
>>nastaveni)?
>1.) Ruzna prava k ruznym tabulkam (jako ruznym objektum) jsou
>myslim v systemech jako Access, Pdox (a dalsi Borland produkty)
>samozrejma: opravneni uzivatelu a skupin pro ruzne operace.
>2.) Pristupem k jednotlivym zaznamum predpokladam myslite k jednotlivym
>vetam tabulky, nikoli k jednotlivym polozkam (polim, ci atributum).
>Pomoci by Vam mozna mohla WinBase602. Nekterymy rysy jiz nalezi k postrelacnim
>databazim - napriklad vicehodnotovymi polozkami.
>WinBase ma specialni typy polozek pro
>- ukladani jmen autoru zmen obsahu jine polozky, pro kterou je urcena (A)
>- ukladani casu techto zmen (B)
>- ukladani minulych hodnot polozky (cca 64 000x) (C)
>Vhodnou pozici techto typu ve strukture tabulky lze dosahnout take sledovani
>autora a data jakekoli zmeny v hodnotach polozek (cele tabulky).
>Dotazem na pritomnost urciteho jmena ve sledovaci polozce by dany uzivatel
>mohl v pohledu do odpovedi pracovat pouze se svymi zaznamy.
!!! Toto neni standardne mozne
>Jinym reseni, ktere vsak nepokryva moznosti B a C, je pro urcitou
>retezcovou polozku stanovit specialni implicitni hodnotu, ktera bude
>zapisovat jmeno uzivatele, ovsem pouze pri vlozeni zaznamu. Na hodnotu
>teto polozky se lze velice jednoduse dotazovat.
Je nutne pouzit tuto variantu, coz lze u vsech produktu, ktere
maji vyraz pro implicitni hodnotu - uzivatelske jmeno.
Pro zachovani konzistence je samozrejme treba zajistit, aby uzivatele
nemohli menit hodnotu teto polozky - napr. zpristupnenim
pouze pro cteni (jako hodnotovou slozku).
Presto lze vyse uvedene vlastnosti WinBase pro efektivni sledovani
zmen uplatnit.
>Dodavam, ze ad 1 i prava k jednotlivym polozkam tabulky jsou ve WinBase
>samozrejma.
S pozdravem
Petr Slegr
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:35:05 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Tomas Vild
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <4a9im1$519@news.eunet.cz> from "Jan Hrdonka" at Dec 8,
95 02:38:57 pm
V tom pripade je slusny program na mail treba Spry Mail a sada Internet in
a box.
je tam slusna sada spolupracujicich programu vcetne uuen/decode utility.
zdravi tom
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:37:25 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:35:05 +0100 you wrote:
>V tom pripade je slusny program na mail treba Spry Mail a sada Internet in
>a box.
>je tam slusna sada spolupracujicich programu vcetne uuen/decode utility.
>
Vsichni skvele pletete dve veci dohromady. Mail602 je e-mail program
podobny Microsoft Mailu ci cc:mailu a _nema_ s internetem a internetim
druhem posty ve skutecnost NIC spolecneho.....
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:40:19 MET-1EET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Kolar
Organization: Liberec University of Technology
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> Vsichni skvele pletete dve veci dohromady. Mail602 je e-mail program
> podobny Microsoft Mailu ci cc:mailu a _nema_ s internetem a internetim
> druhem posty ve skutecnost NIC spolecneho.....
> ' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
Obavam se, ze ve zdejsi skupine budete mit asi stejny uspech jako clovek,
ktery jako postovni spojeni se svetem "nezavisle na postach" nabizi pripadne
doporucuje kufrik obsahujici sadu obalek, papir, pero, zmizik a nozik na
otevirani obalek.
BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
S pozdravem
-------------------------------- Petr Kolar --------------------------------
I Department of Computer Science, Technical University of Liberec I
I E-mail: Petr.Kolar@vslib.cz Phone: +42-48-5227-374 Fax: +42-48-5100865 I
I Postal: Voronezska 13, 461 17 Liberec, Czech Republic I
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My phone and fax numbers have been changed!
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:52:39 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:40:19 MET-1EET you wrote:
> BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
>Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
>uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
pravo na to nema)....
D.
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:04:51 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: calda@SPIDER.MS.MFF.CUNI.CZ
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> > BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
> >Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
> >uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
>
> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
> pravo na to nema)....
>
Protoze si ho napr. muze klidne nahrat, odnest a hrat si s ni .....
A proc je vubec potrebuje mit? Preci staci pravo Create!!
Ahoj Jirka
P.S.: Uz jsem mnohokrat ocenil, ze si mohu precist mail jako text, ale
zakodovany to asi neprectu.
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:46:00 METDST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Kolar
Subject: Re: smajliky
Hi, Jan !
> > Taky by me zajimaly zkratky, jako napr.
> > BTW, FYI, IMHO, atd.
> BTW (by the way) mimochodem
...
AFAIK (As Far As I Know) pokud vim OR pokud je mi znamo
... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:59:23 +0200
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Filip Jerabek
Subject: Re: smajliky
At 11:46 AM 12-12-95 METDST, you wrote:
>Hi, Jan !
>
>> > Taky by me zajimaly zkratky, jako napr.
>> > BTW, FYI, IMHO, atd.
>
>> BTW (by the way) mimochodem
>...
>
>AFAIK (As Far As I Know) pokud vim OR pokud je mi znamo
>
> ... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
> Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
>
>
Parkrat sem zahledl odpoved na stupidni otazku v Visual Basic listserveru:
RTFM (Read The Fucking Manual) no comment
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:00:35 MET-1DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "Jan Hric, KTI"
Organization: Katedra softwaroveho inzenyrstvi
Subject: Re: [Q:] Prodej hudebnich CD na Inetu
X-To: Petr Novotny ,
litera@ccsun.tuke.sk
> Originally to: litera@ccsun.tuke.sk
(pozn.: nie som ucastnikom tejto konferencie. Jan)
> To: Multiple recipients of list CSINFO-L
> Dobry den,
>
> rad bych se zeptal, kde se na Internetu da dostat na nejake WWW
> stranky (pokud mozno s moznosti objednavky) firem zabyvajicich se
> prodejem ci distribuci hudebnich CD. (Zatim jsem nasel jen Atlantic
> na adrese http://zoso.com; slysel jsem o jakemsi CDNow, ale nejak se
> tam nemuzu dostat.)
Na internete existuje niekolko vyhladavacich strojov, ktore same
rozliezaju celu siet. Pri prilezitosti tejto otazky vam ponukam ich
adresy:
Mine Hotlist
- netnews sift
- http://sift.stanford.edu
- http://elib.stanford.edu/
- lycos search
- http://www.lycos.com/
- http://lycos.cs.cmu.edu/
- yahoo search
- http://www.yahoo.com/
a este: webcrawler
http://www.webcrawler.com/
Ja pouzivam Webcravler. Obsahuje pointry na dalsie stroje.
Lycos je asi lepsi, (tj. ma v databazi viac stranok,) ale mam problemy
so spojenim (mozno je server pretazeny).
Yahoo vyhladava len (?) v lokalnych informaciach, ale popis tem ma
rozsiahly.
Netnews sift filtruje news a elib vyhladava len v elektronickych
knizniciach niekolkych americkych univerzit.
Prijemny surfing
praje
Jan Hric
-*-----------------------------------------------------
Jan Hric
Department of Theoretical Computer Science
Malostranske nam. 25
118 00 Praha 1 e-mail: hric@kki.mff.cuni.cz
Czech Republic phone: +42 2 24510286 ext. 246
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:18:31 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <9512120752.AA2840@mail.codalan.cz> from "Daniel Docekal" at Dec
12, 95 08:52:39 am
Dobry den !
According to Daniel Docekal.
> >Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
> >uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
> pravo na to nema)....
NO, ja by som az tak tomu kodovaniu neveril ....
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:27:35 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: MARTIN HRUBY
Organization: Technical University Zlin
Subject: Re: smajliky
> RTFM (Read The Fucking Manual) no comment
Read The Fine Manual while not comment Fill ?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:43:36 MET-1EET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Kolar
Organization: Liberec University of Technology
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
> pravo na to nema)....
Proc by nekdo nemohl pouzivat vas postovni adresar jako "mrtvou schranku"
pro sireni choulostivych souboru (komercni programy, tajne dokumenty)?
Bohuzel mi pripada, ze v te verzi pred rokem a pul to bylo vsechna prava
vsem. Nevim, jak je silny algoritmus, ktery pouziva Mail602 pro kodovani
zprav, ale pokud to nekdo mysli s bezpecnosti vazne, tak nestavi jenom jednu
bezpecnostni barieru...
Jestlize nekdo uvede na trh program, ktery dela prilis mnoho
nedokumentovanych akci (hledani souboru~ na disku, pridelovani prav, ...),
bude pozdeji jen tezko ziskavat kupce pro dalsi verze sveho produktu.
-------------------------------- Petr Kolar --------------------------------
I Department of Computer Science, Technical University of Liberec I
I E-mail: Petr.Kolar@vslib.cz Phone: +42-48-5227-374 Fax: +42-48-5100865 I
I Postal: Voronezska 13, 461 17 Liberec, Czech Republic I
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My phone and fax numbers have been changed!
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:57:00 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Jiri Peterka
Subject: Seznamy CZ_list
Dobry den,
na adrese http://www.dcit.cz/CZ_list/index.html
najdete nekolik seznamu tuzemskych Internetovych zdroju, mj.:
- seznam ceskych provideru Internetu
- zlute stranky (tuzemske zdroje, razene dle obsahu)
- bile stranky (tuzemske firmy, organizace, spolky atd. na Internetu,
v abecednim razeni)
Pripominky, poznamky a aktualizace prosim posilejte prostrednictvim
formularu ve zminenych seznamech.
S pozdravem
J. Peterka, J. Chomyn
DCIT
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:05:56 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ales Horak
Organization: Palacky Univ.
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> Vsichni skvele pletete dve veci dohromady. Mail602 je e-mail program
> podobny Microsoft Mailu ci cc:mailu a _nema_ s internetem a internetim
> druhem posty ve skutecnost NIC spolecneho.....
>
> Daniel
>
> ' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
Mohu se zeptat, co je to 'interneti druh posty' ? Do dnes jsem mel
pocit (zrejme mylny - rad se necham poucit), ze Internet
se svymi protokoly predstavuje to obecnejsi, oproti nekterym
specialitam s vlastni 'treti' cestou (viz. 602, Microsoft,..).
Ales Horak
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Palacky University Computer Centre
Medical Faculty net_admin()
Olomouc, Czech (Made:)
http://risc.upol.cz/~ales/
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:44:56 CET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: rysavy@UJF.CAS.CZ
Subject: Re: Seznamy CZ_list
>
>na adrese http://www.dcit.cz/CZ_list/index.html
>najdete nekolik seznamu tuzemskych Internetovych zdroju, mj.:
>
>- seznam ceskych provideru Internetu
na http://sgi.felk.cvut.cz/~prikryl/prov.html najdete jeste nektere dalsi.
s pozdravem
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Milos Rysavy ;-) voice: (+42 2) 66173170 ;-( _ _ _ |
| Nucl. Phys. Institute :-( (+42 2) 66172652 :-) / |/ |/ | |
| 250 68 Rez near Prague ;-) fax: (+42 2) 6857003 ;-( | | | |
| Czech Republic :-( email: rysavy@ujf.cas.cz :-) | | |_/. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:10:25 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: MARTIN HRUBY
Organization: Technical University Zlin
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> Mohu se zeptat, co je to 'interneti druh posty' ? Do dnes jsem mel
> pocit (zrejme mylny - rad se necham poucit), ze Internet
> se svymi protokoly predstavuje to obecnejsi, oproti nekterym
> specialitam s vlastni 'treti' cestou (viz. 602, Microsoft,..).
>
Existuji nejmene dve posty. Jednak lokalni, v ramci jedne site LAN,
jednak "globalni", tedy napr. po internetu.
Martin Hruby
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:25:37 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ales Horak
Organization: Palacky Univ.
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> > Mohu se zeptat, co je to 'interneti druh posty' ? Do dnes jsem mel
> > pocit (zrejme mylny - rad se necham poucit), ze Internet
> > se svymi protokoly predstavuje to obecnejsi, oproti nekterym
> > specialitam s vlastni 'treti' cestou (viz. 602, Microsoft,..).
> >
>
> Existuji nejmene dve posty. Jednak lokalni, v ramci jedne site LAN,
> jednak "globalni", tedy napr. po internetu.
>
> Martin Hruby
To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
Ales Horak
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Palacky University Computer Centre
Medical Faculty net_admin()
Olomouc, Czech (Made:)
http://risc.upol.cz/~ales/
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:32:49 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: MARTIN HRUBY
Organization: Technical University Zlin
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> > > Mohu se zeptat, co je to 'interneti druh posty' ? Do dnes jsem mel
> > > pocit (zrejme mylny - rad se necham poucit), ze Internet
> > > se svymi protokoly predstavuje to obecnejsi, oproti nekterym
> > > specialitam s vlastni 'treti' cestou (viz. 602, Microsoft,..).
> > >
> >
> > Existuji nejmene dve posty. Jednak lokalni, v ramci jedne site LAN,
> > jednak "globalni", tedy napr. po internetu.
> >
> > Martin Hruby
>
> To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
> nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
>
Presne tak, jde o branu a ne o zobecneni.
Martin Hruby
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:35:00 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: smajliky
In-Reply-To: <23615CF38DA@ft1.zlin.vutbr.cz> from "MARTIN HRUBY" at Dec 12,
95 12:27:35 pm
According to MARTIN HRUBY.
> > RTFM (Read The Fucking Manual) no comment
> Read The Fine Manual while not comment Fill ?
it's depend of sysadmin mood ;-)
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:31:26 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: from "Ales Horak" at Dec 12,
95 02:25:37 pm
According to Ales Horak.
> Martin Hruby wrote:
> > > Mohu se zeptat, co je to 'interneti druh posty' ? Do dnes jsem mel
> > > pocit (zrejme mylny - rad se necham poucit), ze Internet
> > > se svymi protokoly predstavuje to obecnejsi, oproti nekterym
> > > specialitam s vlastni 'treti' cestou (viz. 602, Microsoft,..).
> > Existuji nejmene dve posty. Jednak lokalni, v ramci jedne site LAN,
> > jednak "globalni", tedy napr. po internetu.
> To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
> nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
+ Ano, takmer vsetky.
- Velmi casto je takato brana distribuovana ako samostatny modul
za "mastny" priplatok.
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:27:47 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:25:37 MET-1 you wrote:
>To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
>nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
Svete div se - ale budto nema, nebo je natolik draha (cc:mail
napriklad) ze se orosi lecktere celo....
Nechapu kde berete iluze ze SMTP je neco jako postovni standard. V
Internetu mozna ano, ale mimo nej? Mimo internet existuji takove veci
jako MHS (setsakra standard) a pritom internet o takove veci nema ani
poneti.
Svet neni jenom internet (a naopak)
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:07:09 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jaroslav Bobovsky
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <9512121427.AA0347@mail.codalan.cz>
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Daniel Docekal wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:25:37 MET-1 you wrote:
>
> >To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
> >nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
>
> Svete div se - ale budto nema, nebo je natolik draha (cc:mail
> napriklad) ze se orosi lecktere celo....
>
> Nechapu kde berete iluze ze SMTP je neco jako postovni standard. V
> Internetu mozna ano, ale mimo nej? Mimo internet existuji takove veci
> jako MHS (setsakra standard) a pritom internet o takove veci nema ani
MOzno preto sa MHS nepresadil tak ako Internet. SMTP nie je standart v
pravom slova zmysle (teda neprebehla stndartizacia nejakym uradom) a nikdy
ani nebude. Napriek tomu to je najpouzivanejsi protokol na prenos posty
v globalnej sieti.
S pozdravom
============================
Jaroslav Bobovsky
Computer Centre
Slovak Academy of Sciences
,__o
Bratislava _-\_<,
Dubravska 9 _________ ________ __(*)/'(*)
Slovakia
tel: +42 (7) 374 422
fax: +42 (7) 375 851
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:41:06 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ales Horak
Organization: Palacky Univ.
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> >To ano, ale nema kazdy 'slusny' "lokalni" postovni system
> >nejakou tu SMTP branu (kterou muze nebo nemusi vyuzivat) ?
>
> Svete div se - ale budto nema, nebo je natolik draha (cc:mail
> napriklad) ze se orosi lecktere celo....
>
> Nechapu kde berete iluze ze SMTP je neco jako postovni standard. V
Iluze si rozhodne nedelam (hlavne pokud jde o 602, Microsoft,... :-)
Ale myslim ze tady nikdo nemluvil o nejakych urednich standardech,
ale pouze o tom, co je nejvic zazite a pouzivane.
> Internetu mozna ano, ale mimo nej? Mimo internet existuji takove veci
> jako MHS (setsakra standard) a pritom internet o takove veci nema ani
> poneti.
Ujistuju Vas, ze poneti ma - napr Pegas umi jak SMTP, tak MHS - ale
kdo ho pouziva (MHS) ?
> Svet neni jenom internet (a naopak)
To nikdo netvrdi, ale Internet se dnes rozrusta nejvice tim zpusobem,
ze se do nej postupne pripojuji LOKALNI site, ktere v nem driv nebyly
a treba nekolik let si vegetily autonomne a izolovane... :)
Prijemne proziti zbytku dne
Ales Horak
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Palacky University Computer Centre
Medical Faculty net_admin()
Olomouc, Czech (Made:)
http://risc.upol.cz/~ales/
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:47:18 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: FIDO NET
> ... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
> Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
Kdyz jsme u toho FIDA.
Jak je to s gate Inet<->Fido ????
Pokud da telnet na bbs.fido.cz dostanu pouze hlaseni,ze
se na vsem usilovne pracuje,bezi posledni overovaci testy nebo tak
nejak a to,ze sluzba bude dostupna koncem _listopadu_ !?!?
Vim pouze jedno ... neni.
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:38:52 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <9512121427.AA0347@mail.codalan.cz>
On 12 Dec 1995, Daniel Docekal wrote:
> Svet neni jenom internet (a naopak)
Sorry, ale ja myslel, ze tahle konference je prevazne o Internetu, a s
ohledem na to jsem se na MAIL602 ptal..
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:52:12 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:18:31 +0100 you wrote:
>> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
>> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
>> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
>> pravo na to nema)....
>
>NO, ja by som az tak tomu kodovaniu neveril ....
Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:00:16 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: MARTIN HRUBY
Organization: Technical University Zlin
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> Kdyz jsme u toho FIDA.
> Jak je to s gate Inet<->Fido ????
> Pokud da telnet na bbs.fido.cz dostanu pouze hlaseni,ze
> se na vsem usilovne pracuje,bezi posledni overovaci testy nebo tak
> nejak a to,ze sluzba bude dostupna koncem _listopadu_ !?!?
> Vim pouze jedno ... neni.
>
Pridam se s dalsim dotazem, co dela FIGA ? Prestala posilat zpravy
jenom mne nebo vsem ?
Martin Hruby
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:29:29 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Eduard Vopicka
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: Daniel Docekal Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a
zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Dec 12, 6:52pm, Daniel Docekal wrote:
} Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
} On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:18:31 +0100 you wrote:
} Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
} posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
} ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
}-- End of excerpt from Daniel Docekal
IMHO je zakodovana nemlich tak, jak ji zakodoval odesilatel, tedy
alespon pokud zprava v zakodovanem tvaru obsahovala pouze znaky,
pripustne z hlediska SMTP.
Kdyz odesilatel poslal otevreny text, je tam ulozeny otevreny text.
Kdyz kodoval pomoci uuencode, je text ulozen uuencoded, coz je
z hlediska utajeni jiste hrozne legracni zpusob.
No a pokud kodoval (ci chiffroval, ze) treba pomoci PGP,
neshledavam na takovem postupu vubec nic hrozne legracniho.
E.V.
--
"Eduard Vopicka, Computing Centre, Prague University of Economics,
W. Churchill Square 4, CZ 130 67 Prague 3"
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:40:05 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
At 18:52 12.12.1995 GMT, you wrote:
>Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
>posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
>ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
A kdo ma k poste na SMTP/POP3 serveru volny pristup? Pokud je to spravne
nakonfigurovano, pouze administrator.
Rozhodne povazuji za slozitejsi odchytavat pakety z Ethernetu, analyzovat
je a tim ziskat jednu nezakodovanou message nez si libovolne mnozstvi
zakodovanych messagi zkopirovat k sobe a zkusit je louskat.
S pozdravem,
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:47:22 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
>Rozhodne povazuji za slozitejsi odchytavat pakety z Ethernetu, analyzovat
>je a tim ziskat jednu nezakodovanou message nez si libovolne mnozstvi
>zakodovanych messagi zkopirovat k sobe a zkusit je louskat.
Jeste mne ted napadlo:
Kdyz od sebe poslu zpravu nekomu, tak musi obsahovat typicke polozky, napr.
u SMTP From:kvarda@vc.cvut.cz apod., naslo by se i odpovidajici u MHS.
Navic kdyz poslu nekomu svoji zpravu a zaroven monitoruji jeho mail directory,
hned si ji tam vyzvednu zakodovanou a mam tedy jak zdroj tak cil. A to je
docela dobry zacatek pro louskani toho sifrovani a muze ho udelat kazdy i
bez znalosti jakychkoliv sitovych protokolu.
S pozdravem,
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:53:17 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <199512121758.SAA21726@us.spinet.cz> from "Daniel Docekal" at Dec
12, 95 06:52:12 pm
Dobry den !
According to Daniel Docekal.
> >> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
> >> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
> >> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
> >> pravo na to nema)....
> >
> >NO, ja by som az tak tomu kodovaniu neveril ....
> Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
> posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
> ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
Az ju POP3 ulozi "niekde" na postovom servri, tak sa k nej (za predpokladu,
ze spravca nevytvoril niekde "dieru" tato NEDOSTUPNA ostatnym pouzivatelom z
lokalneho stroja.
Moja pripomienka bola k horeuvedenemu tvrdeniu: "Proc by si nekdo cizi
nemohl cist postovni adresar moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane...".
Uznavam, ze kontrola pristupovych prav k suborom s doslou postou neriesi ich
ochranu pocas prenosu. Na zaklade skusenosti z prevadzky nasej siete vsak
predpokladam omnoho vacsiu motivaciu dostat sa k datam "suseda" ako nejakeho
anonymneho pouzivatela X.Y@z.w.* o ktorom nic neviem. A nemusim byt ani
odbornik. Staci, ak niekde na sieti najdem "udelatko", ktore mi dokaze
"rozlusknut" sifru M602. (Vychadzam z analogie s mnozstvom "nastrojov" na
vyuzivanie znamych dier v existujucich OS).
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:54:39 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:29:29 +0100 you wrote:
>} Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
>} posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
>} ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
>
>IMHO je zakodovana nemlich tak, jak ji zakodoval odesilatel, tedy
>alespon pokud zprava v zakodovanem tvaru obsahovala pouze znaky,
>pripustne z hlediska SMTP.
>
>Kdyz odesilatel poslal otevreny text, je tam ulozeny otevreny text.
>Kdyz kodoval pomoci uuencode, je text ulozen uuencoded, coz je
>z hlediska utajeni jiste hrozne legracni zpusob.
>
>No a pokud kodoval (ci chiffroval, ze) treba pomoci PGP,
>neshledavam na takovem postupu vubec nic hrozne legracniho.
No, na tom postupu NIC legracniho neni, legracni je, jak se vsichni
snazite spinit vsechno co neni Internet a argumentovat totalne
podivnymi argumenty - jako ze napriklad Mail602 ma pochybne kodovani
zprav. Pritom internet, pro jistotu, samozrejme, nema vubec zadne.
To byla a je pointa zprav a pokud nekdo (treba zrovna vy) nesleduje
zpravy a vytrzene z kontextu reaguje na jednu z nich, tak potom
pochopitelne musi mit podivny pocit. :)
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:57:24 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:40:05 +0100 you wrote:
>>Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
>>posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
>>ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
>
>A kdo ma k poste na SMTP/POP3 serveru volny pristup? Pokud je to spravne
>nakonfigurovano, pouze administrator.
>
>Rozhodne povazuji za slozitejsi odchytavat pakety z Ethernetu, analyzovat
>je a tim ziskat jednu nezakodovanou message nez si libovolne mnozstvi
>zakodovanych messagi zkopirovat k sobe a zkusit je louskat.
A kdo ma pristup k poste, kterou POSILATE na druhy konec sveta? Mraky
lidi a mraky systemu skrz ktere nejakym zpusobem projde, jakykoliv
system okolo ktereho potece skrz Ethernet, jakykoliv system skrz ktery
to odteka z vasi site (pripojene urcite nejak k internetu) atd. A
vsichni si ji mohou precist, protoze je ciste ASCII.
A je to stejne nesmyslny argument, jako ze si mohu odnest zakodovane
message a zkusit je louskat. Pokud uz nekdo ma dostatek sil a vybaveni
na louskani DES kodovanych zprav, tak urcite ma dost sil a vybaveni na
louskani hesel v Novell siti :)
D.
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:05:21 GMT+1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Boris Majdiak
Organization: Military Academy, Slovakia
Subject: Word ...
Kde sa da pozhanat slovensky slovnik do Word for Windows v. 6 ???
Sybor
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:13:08 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <199512130653.AA08810@ns.cvut.cz> from "Jiri Kvarda" at Dec 13,
95 07:47:22 am
Dobry den !
According to Jiri Kvarda.
> >Rozhodne povazuji za slozitejsi odchytavat pakety z Ethernetu, analyzovat
> >je a tim ziskat jednu nezakodovanou message nez si libovolne mnozstvi
> >zakodovanych messagi zkopirovat k sobe a zkusit je louskat.
> Jeste mne ted napadlo:
> ...deleted ...
> kdyz poslu nekomu svoji zpravu a zaroven monitoruji jeho mail directory,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> hned si ji tam vyzvednu zakodovanou a mam tedy jak zdroj tak cil. A to je
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> docela dobry zacatek pro louskani toho sifrovani a muze ho udelat kazdy i
> bez znalosti jakychkoliv sitovych protokolu.
ALe prave o tom je diskusia, preco sa nam postove systemy odlisne od M602
zdaju mat o jeden stupen ochrany viac (nevravim ze su o stupen bezpecnejsie).
Ako xchcete MONITOROVAT cudzi MAIL DIRECTORY (ak nie ste supervizor). Ako si
chcete taku (zakodovanu, ci nezakodovanu) spravu vyzdvihnut, ak ju (na
rozdiel od Mail602) NEMATE PRISTUPNU na citanie ? Navyse ak je sprava
kodovana PGP, nestaci (trebars ako supervizor) "ukradnut" tu cast
privatneho kluca, ktora je na disku, ale este treba poznat cast, ktoru pri
kazdomjeho pouziti zadava pouzivatel (ja viem, a sa odchytit po sieti.. ;-)
(ale toto je uz demagogia, pretoze spravu mozem zakodovat pomocou PGP mimo
posty a potomju pripojit (aj ked sa mi viac paci riesenie, ked je to
zaintegrovane priamo do prostredia elektronickej posty.
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:33:28 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
Eduard Vopicka v poslednim dopise z 12 Dec 95 pise:
> On Dec 12, 6:52pm, Daniel Docekal wrote:
> } Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
> } On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:18:31 +0100 you wrote:
>
> } Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
> } posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
> } ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
>
> }-- End of excerpt from Daniel Docekal
>
> IMHO je zakodovana nemlich tak, jak ji zakodoval odesilatel, tedy
> alespon pokud zprava v zakodovanem tvaru obsahovala pouze znaky,
> pripustne z hlediska SMTP.
>
> Kdyz odesilatel poslal otevreny text, je tam ulozeny otevreny text.
> Kdyz kodoval pomoci uuencode, je text ulozen uuencoded, coz je
> z hlediska utajeni jiste hrozne legracni zpusob.
>
> No a pokud kodoval (ci chiffroval, ze) treba pomoci PGP,
> neshledavam na takovem postupu vubec nic hrozne legracniho.
>
> E.V.
To je krasny panove, neblbnete, vzdyt jsou jiz brzy vanoce.
Vidim, ze at se clovek zepta na cokoliv, vsichni se snazi prosadit
sve zajmy, sve vedomosti, sve znalosti a nevim co jeste. Ma puvodni
otazka znela naprosto nevinne a zadal jsem nekoho, kdo ma PRAKTICKE
zkusenosti s Mail602, zdali by se o ne se mnou nepodelil: jaka posta
to je, jak ji zkousel, co pripojeni do Site a co od toho mohu cekat
a misto toho se tady mezi sebou lidi dohaduji, nenavidi, hani a nevim
co jeste. Ptam se tedy proc? Myslim, ze se diskuse dostala do docela
slepych koleji...
Dovolim si tedy otazku zopakovat:
Mam jednoduchy dotaz: Mate nekdo PRAKTICKE zkusenosti s pouzivanim
MAIL602 ve verzi 3.0? Myslim tim zkusenosti s kvalitou,
pouzitelnosti, univerzalnosti a standardnosti klientu a serveru?
Mozna bych uvital i nazory na verzi starsi 2.0. 3.0 je na trhu preci
jen par mesicu.
Prosim na mou privatni adresu, protoze si myslim ze je jiz spousta
lidi mirne priotravena timto tematem.
Diky za vsechny prispevky, ktere mi pomohly zodpovedet alepon
castecne na otazku zda MAIL602 ano =E8i ne...
Diky vsem
Martin Kamin
kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:01:14 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <9512130654.AA0665@mail.codalan.cz> from "Daniel Docekal" at Dec
13, 95 07:54:39 am
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Dobry den !
According to Daniel Docekal.
> On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:29:29 +0100 you wrote:
> >} Vy jste vsichni tak hrozne legracni, prozradte mi, jak je kodovana
> >} posta pri prenosu pomoci POP3 nebo SMTP, jak je kodovana posta pote co
> >} ji SMTP agent ulozi pro POP3 server nekde na postovnim serveru?
> >
> >IMHO je zakodovana nemlich tak, jak ji zakodoval odesilatel, tedy
...deleted...
> >No a pokud kodoval (ci chiffroval, ze) treba pomoci PGP,
> >neshledavam na takovem postupu vubec nic hrozne legracniho.
> No, na tom postupu NIC legracniho neni, legracni je, jak se vsichni
> snazite spinit vsechno co neni Internet a argumentovat totalne
> podivnymi argumenty - jako ze napriklad Mail602 ma pochybne kodovani
> zprav. Pritom internet, pro jistotu, samozrejme, nema vubec zadne.
> To byla a je pointa zprav a pokud nekdo (treba zrovna vy) nesleduje
> zpravy a vytrzene z kontextu reaguje na jednu z nich, tak potom
> pochopitelne musi mit podivny pocit. :)
Ospravedlnujem sa za dlzku prispevku, ale vzhladom na dlzku diskusie, mozno
uz nevieme, ako to vsetko zacalo... Navyse je tu obvinenie, ze niektori
nevedia o diskusii, ku ktorej prispievaju, tak male zhrnutie vari nezaskodi.
Kratka rekapitulacia diskusie:
Otazka (Martin Kamin):
>Mate nekdo PRAKTICKE zkusenosti s pouzivanim MAIL602 ve verzi 3.0?
>Myslim tim zkusenosti s kvalitou, pouzitelnosti, univerzalnosti
>a standardnosti klientu a serveru?
Prva odpoved (Daniel Docekal):
>Veskrze kladne, pred lety jsem postavil celou vnitrofiremni komunikaci
>na Mailu (2.0 jeste tehdy snad dokonce) od S602 a po pocatecni
>neduvere jsem byl velice prijemne prekvapen. Ted si bez nej nedokazu
>predstavit zivot....
Reakcia (Tomas Vild):
>Pouzivejte elm, je standardni najdete jej vsude a nejsou smim zadne
>problemy.
Nasledne (Daniel Docekal):
>Heh, jasne, zkousel jsem to - odradilo me:
> - nutnost to vubec jakkoliv konfigurovat
> - problemy s cestinou
> - potreba mit to lokalizovane
>Mimo to, to ma nekolik dalsih nevyhod
> - nemoznost spoluprace s MHS, NetWorem, Faxem, Teletextem
> - nutnost existence internetu
>
>Tezko se da srovnavat MaiL602 a ELM - oboje je totiz o necem jinem....
(moja poznamka:
To posledne by sa dala upresnit staci internet, nemusi byt Internet, inak s
poslednou vetou suhlasim)
Pan Kamin podakoval za info od pana Docekala.
Pan Hrdonka sa spytal na otazky smerujuce k "kompatibilite" Mail602 s
Internetom (UUCP, POP, IMAP, UUENCODE, MIME)
Odpoved pana Daniela Docekala (Mail602 nevie IMAP, POP, pretoze je urcena
pre ine prostredie, ale umoznuje UUCP, v ramci Internet Gateway, podporuje
MIME.)
Pan Tomas Vild odporuca Spry Mail
Pan Docekal upozornuje
>Vsichni skvele pletete dve veci dohromady. Mail602 je e-mail program
>podobny Microsoft Mailu ci cc:mailu a _nema_ s internetem a internetim
>druhem posty ve skutecnost NIC spolecneho.....
V dalsom prispevku s tymto subjektom pan Petr Kolar okrem ineho uviedol:
> BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
>Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
>uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
Pointa jeho spravy bola: Nepaci sa mi riesenie M602, ktore
ponechava spravy pristupne inym pouzivatelom. Na to pan Docekal reagoval,
ze to nenarusa bezpecnost, pretoze su tie spravy kodovane:
>A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
>moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
>nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
>pravo na to nema)....
No a prave o tom hovorime. Takto su tieto spravy lahko pristupne komukolvek
a moze si ich luskat (a nemusi ich ani odchytavat).
BTW: prave preto, ze Mail602, je "Mail602 je e-mail program ... a nema s
internetem a internetim druhem posty ve skutecnost NIC spolecneho....",
by jeho autori mali dbat na bezpecnost v ramci izolovaneho systemu. (teda
aby mi do mojej posty nemohol pozriet kolega z kancelarie odvedla, ktory
na to nasiel navod na nejakej BBS ...
(diskusia pokracuje rozoberanim "standardtnosti", kompatibility,
Mail602 etc...)
Nezda sa mi, ze by tu niekto "spinil" nejaky produkt. Iba sa tuna
vyjadrili nazory na potencionalnu bezpecnostnu dieru, na sposob riesenia,
ktory zbytocne odstranuje jeden stupen ochrany pred neopravnenym pristupom
k datam ineho pouzivatela.
Ospravedlnujem sa za dlhy prispevok.
(a zlu hlavicku - pre spravcu konferencie :-)
- --
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:05:08 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: Word ...
In-Reply-To: from "Boris Majdiak" at Dec 13, 95 08:05:21 am
Dobry den !
According to Boris Majdiak.
> Kde sa da pozhanat slovensky slovnik do Word for Windows v. 6 ???
> Sybor
U zastupcov prislusnej firmy (ako vsetok komercny SW :-) V kosiciach je to
napriklad lynx (skuste postu na ?????@lynx.sk (neviem kto to tam ma na
starosti)
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:44:26 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> Pridam se s dalsim dotazem, co dela FIGA ? Prestala posilat zpravy
> jenom mne nebo vsem ?
ja vim o min. 2 lidech.....
s pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:52:55 METDST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Kolar
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
Hi, Petr !
> Jak je to s gate Inet<->Fido ????
Co jsem slysel, tak FIGA je uz asi definitivne odstavena (Poslala prej
do newsoft.42 nejakej bordel).
BTW: Nebylo by od veci, kdyby k tomu neco rekl taky Ivo Musil...
... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 10:54:25 METDST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Kolar
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
Hi, MARTIN !
> co dela FIGA ? Prestala posilat zpravy jenom mne nebo vsem ?
IMHO vsem ...
A neni uz dostupna ani ze strany FIDA.
... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:04:55 METDST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Kolar
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
Hi, Petr !
> > co dela FIGA ? Prestala posilat zpravy jenom mne nebo vsem ?
> ja vim o min. 2 lidech.....
Tak si pripocti dalsi 2... ;)
Ale vazne - prihlas se na INFIMu (telnet bbs.infima.cz) a zaregistruj
se tam.
Pokud pak sezenes terminal, kterej bude schopen tahat z INFIMy QWK
postu, mas vyhrano (me se to zatim nepodarilo).
Staci se pak dohodnout se SysOpem, vzit vhodnej OFF-LINE reader
(BlueWave nebo tak neco) a je vyreseno.
Zatim to ale pada na tom prenosu QWK baliku posty z INFIMy.
(Konzultace se SysOpem mi moc nepomohla).:((
... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:12:43 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:13:08 +0100 you wrote:
>> kdyz poslu nekomu svoji zpravu a zaroven monitoruji jeho mail directory,
>> hned si ji tam vyzvednu zakodovanou a mam tedy jak zdroj tak cil. A to je
>> docela dobry zacatek pro louskani toho sifrovani a muze ho udelat kazdy i
>> bez znalosti jakychkoliv sitovych protokolu.
>
>ALe prave o tom je diskusia, preco sa nam postove systemy odlisne od M602
>zdaju mat o jeden stupen ochrany viac (nevravim ze su o stupen bezpecnejsie).
Ano, zejmena SMTP protokol a POP3 protokol - velice bezpecne
protokoly.
Boze muj, o cem to tu jeste debatujete?
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:14:30 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Najde se nejaky named/DNS guru?
Nasel by se nejaky named/DNS guru, kteremu bych mohl poslat soubory
(databaze) pro named pro kontrolu? Rad bych aby to chodilo a pokud
mozno spravne.
Diky predem
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:51:16 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jaroslav Bobovsky
Subject: Info o digitizeri Tektronix 4958
Dobry den,
Viem, ze tato sprava nepatri celkom do tejto diskusie, ale kedze sa tu uz
diskutuje o vselicom mal by som jednu velku prosbu.
Vie niekto o niekom, kto pozna digitizer Tektronix 4958.
Je to uz dost stara masina (asi z roku 1985), ale doteraz kolegom z
geografickeho ustavu spolahlivo fungovala. Teraz sa im pokazila a
potrebovali by zistit, ci nablizku (v Cechach, alebo na Slovensku) existuje
niekto, kto by taketo nieco vedel opravit.
Staci mi aj informacia, ze taketo nieco (alebo nieco podobne) mate u seba
a mate kontakt na firmu.
Dakujem vopred vsetkym
============================
Jaroslav Bobovsky
Computer Centre
Slovak Academy of Sciences
,__o
Bratislava _-\_<,
Dubravska 9 _________ ________ __(*)/'(*)
Slovakia
tel: +42 (7) 374 422
fax: +42 (7) 375 851
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:56:52 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Richard Drutarovsky
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
In-Reply-To: <199512130735.AA10713@dior.ics.muni.cz> from "Martin Kamin" at
Dec 13, 95 08:33:28 am
> To je krasny panove, neblbnete, vzdyt jsou jiz brzy vanoce.
> Vidim, ze at se clovek zepta na cokoliv, vsichni se snazi prosadit
> sve zajmy, sve vedomosti, sve znalosti a nevim co jeste. Ma puvodni
> otazka znela naprosto nevinne a zadal jsem nekoho, kdo ma PRAKTICKE
> zkusenosti s Mail602, zdali by se o ne se mnou nepodelil: jaka posta
> to je, jak ji zkousel, co pripojeni do Site a co od toho mohu cekat
> a misto toho se tady mezi sebou lidi dohaduji, nenavidi, hani a nevim
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> co jeste. Ptam se tedy proc? Myslim, ze se diskuse dostala do docela
> slepych koleji...
Preco? Zrejme preto, ze nemaju iny priestor kde by sa nenavideli a hanili a
neviem co este, nez tuto konferenciu.
Aby som nemal prilis vela trestnych bodov za off topic, tak uz len zazelam
vsetkym pekne Vianoce a pevne zdravie v dalsom roku.
Drutarovsky
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:08:57 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: David Horky
Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the CSINFO-L list (fwd)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Horky
horky@fi.muni.cz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:00:02 +0000
From: L-Soft list server at CSEARN (1.8b)
To: David Horky
Subject: Renewal of your subscription to the CSINFO-L list
Wed, 13 Dec 1995 06:00:02
Your subscription to the CSINFO-L list is due for renewal. If you wish to
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CONFIRM CSINFO-L
// EOJ
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:17:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
In-Reply-To: <317F3942@ikaros.zcu.cz>
On 13 Dec 1995, Stanislav Kolar wrote:
> Co jsem slysel, tak FIGA je uz asi definitivne odstavena (Poslala prej
> do newsoft.42 nejakej bordel).
A pry se vyviji nova verze software, a pak to bude zase chodit.
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:37:00 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Radovan Semancik
Organization: UAKOM Banska Bystrica
Subject: Re: IRC
Boris Majdiak (MAJDIAK%VALM.SK@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
: Ak chces zakladne informacie o tom, co je to IRC, ake v nom pouzivat
: prikazy, ... napis Kozovi.
: Ak nieco budes mat, ozvi sa! Ja mam len tie iformacie a script od
: Koza.
Chudak Kozo ...
Takto dopadnu vsetci co su ochotny pomoct, sa ich meno vykrici v newsoch ...
Cest jeho pamiatke ..
Gildir
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 14:58:00 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Igor Bilyi
Organization: Derby Inc.
Subject: Re: Internet na Ukrajine
:>Mili delnici siti,
:> pojedu na Ukrajinu a rad bych pri te prilezitosti pomohl pratelum
:>z tamnejsich nevladnich organizaci s pripojenim na Internet. Nemate
:>nekdo zkusenosti s tim, jak to dnes na Ukrajine (Kijev, Simferopol)
:>delaji?
nejsem delnik siti, ale vim, ze na celem uzemi byvaleho USSR
vladne Relcom a to vetsinou jen jako postovni sit.
Uroven internetu je v mizernem stavu :-(
:>s pranim prijemnych vanoc a vseho dobreho
hodne stesti s napojenim na internet (jo a hodne penez, zadarmo
neda se pripojit :)
:>Vaclav Trojan
Igor Bilyi
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 16:32:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Matus Uhlar
Organization: Slovak Academic Network Kosice
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
Daniel Docekal (codalan%LOGIN.CZ@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
-> On Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:38:57 GMT you wrote:
->
-> >1) umi 602Mail IMAP nebo POP3 (resp. POP2+SMTP) protokol (via winsocks)?
->
-> Ne, Mail602 je posta pro PC prostredi nezavisle na siti, tj. _neni_
-> zavisle na vecech,ktere se vyskytuji v Internetu. Je to totez jako
-> byste se ptal zda MicrosoftMail nebo ccMail umi POP3 :)
->
-> Mail602 nicmene vlastni branu pro styk s Internetem a ta umoznuje UUCP
-> napojeni, na dalsim se pracuje.
->
-> >3) umi kodovani MIME (nebo alespon UUENCODE)?
->
-> Umi MIME, UUENCODE/UUDECODE nikoliv.
->
-> >4) kolik to stoji (602Mail, popr. nejaka gateway)?
->
-> Ceniky prodejcu, zavisi na poctu uzivatelu.
Nakolko je MAIL602 kompatibilny s internetom ? a s inymi postovymi
programami ? U nas je samozrejme ze ci poslem postu programom elm, pine,
mail, mailtool, xmh, stale je to ta ista posta. Zatial co taketo baliky si
vymyslia vlastny protokol, vlastny format spravy - brrrr
--
Matus Uhlar at Regional node of SANET in Kosice, Slovakia
E-mail: Matus.Uhlar@tuke.sk NTALK: uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk
IRC: fantomas PGP: finger uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk | pgp
...I'd like to add something cool here, but I don't know what ;-)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:31:53 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?krem=BEsk=E1_HO=D8=C8ICE?=
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: UDP data delivery
Is there a CESNET policy on delivery of streaming data via a
UDP-based protocol?
Have any CZ or SK institutions implemented restrictions on UDP
(blocking certain ports, for example) as part of a policy?
D=ECkuji,
Barry Bouwsma
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:37:59 MET-1EET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Kolar
Organization: Liberec University of Technology
Subject: Re: UDP data delivery
> Is there a CESNET policy on delivery of streaming data via a
> UDP-based protocol?
> Have any CZ or SK institutions implemented restrictions on UDP
> (blocking certain ports, for example) as part of a policy?
As far as I know there is no such policy in CESnet as a whole. But some
sites may have some policy in this field.
-------------------------------- Petr Kolar --------------------------------
I Department of Computer Science, Technical University of Liberec I
I E-mail: Petr.Kolar@vslib.cz Phone: +42-48-5227-374 Fax: +42-48-5100865 I
I Postal: Voronezska 13, 461 17 Liberec, Czech Republic I
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My phone and fax numbers have been changed!
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:06:12 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jaromir Krepelka
Organization: Palacky Univ. Department of Optics
Subject: Re: Internet na Ukrajine
> pojedu na Ukrajinu a rad bych pri te prilezitosti pomohl
> pratelum z tamnejsich nevladnich organizaci s pripojenim na
> Internet. Nemate nekdo zkusenosti s tim, jak to dnes na Ukrajine
> (Kijev, Simferopol) delaji?
> Vaclav Trojan
Pouzivam spojeni e-postou do Kieva a Charkova s drobnymi problemy,
jejichz puvod (vypinani serveru pres vikend ?) jsem nezjistil.
Zdravi Jaromir Krepelka
krepelka@risc.upol.cz
http://risc.upol.cz/~krepelka/welcome.html
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:27:23 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> Pokud pak sezenes terminal, kterej bude schopen tahat z INFIMy QWK
na toto reseni nemam bohuzel cas :-(
> postu, mas vyhrano (me se to zatim nepodarilo).
> Staci se pak dohodnout se SysOpem, vzit vhodnej OFF-LINE reader
Infima je ale komercni organizace a tohle by mi za pripadne
penize asi nestalo(raci se budu vic ucvit anglictinu)
> (BlueWave nebo tak neco) a je vyreseno.
> Zatim to ale pada na tom prenosu QWK baliku posty z INFIMy.
> (Konzultace se SysOpem mi moc nepomohla).:((
>
> ... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
> Bye Standa K. ze z Plzne
>
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:30:08 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> > Jak je to s gate Inet<->Fido ????
>
> Co jsem slysel, tak FIGA je uz asi definitivne odstavena (Poslala prej
> do newsoft.42 nejakej bordel).
> BTW: Nebylo by od veci, kdyby k tomu neco rekl taky Ivo Musil...
>
> ... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prave.uzivatele Inetu si nemuzou zvyknout,ze signaturu na
celou stranu musi zaplatit nekdo cizi a ti cizi maji nekdy taky
_dost_ podivne nazory ( nekdy jsem mel az dojem,ze Inet berou jako
konkurenci...to nechapu).
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:30:54 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> > Co jsem slysel, tak FIGA je uz asi definitivne odstavena (Poslala prej
> > do newsoft.42 nejakej bordel).
>
> A pry se vyviji nova verze software, a pak to bude zase chodit.
Kdy ?
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:05:57 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "OA a SOU Kocianka BRNO, CZ"
Subject: Dotaz na Winsock
Vazeni pratele
Zjistuji, zda-li je mozne provozovat Trumpet Winsock v siti Novell NetWare
4.1 tak, aby byl mozny pristup do Internetu z kterehokoliv pocitace site,
prestoze je modem pripojen jen k jedne pracovni stanici. Je-li to nejak
mozne a nemate cas poskytnout mi podrobny navod, poradte mi aspon kde
informace ziskat.
Dekuji a srdecne zdravim
Ing. Jiri Hoffmann
Stredni skoly pro tel. post. mladez
Kocianka 2
612 47 Brno
t. 749 685
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:09:44 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
On 14 Dec 1995, Petr Snajdr wrote:
> Infima je ale komercni organizace a tohle by mi za pripadne
> penize asi nestalo(raci se budu vic ucvit anglictinu)
Fidonetovske pointy jsou zadarmo (nesetkal jsem se s nikym, kdo by za to
chtel penize), a u Infimy je to na 90% taky zadarmo.
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:31:01 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Burdil
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
In-Reply-To:
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Hynek Med wrote:
> On 14 Dec 1995, Petr Snajdr wrote:
>
> > Infima je ale komercni organizace a tohle by mi za pripadne
> > penize asi nestalo(raci se budu vic ucvit anglictinu)
>
> Fidonetovske pointy jsou zadarmo (nesetkal jsem se s nikym, kdo by za to
> chtel penize), a u Infimy je to na 90% taky zadarmo.
>
> Hynek
>
> --
> Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
>
Ja mam na Infime taky point a opravdu je to zadarmo.
Honza
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:58:21 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: matu@INFIMA.CZ
Organization: >>> INFIMA BBS <<<
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
IX>Fidonetovske pointy jsou zadarmo (nesetkal jsem se s nikym, kdo by za to
IX>chtel penize), a u Infimy je to na 90% taky zadarmo.
IX>Hynek
Na 100%.
Petr Matousek
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:31:15 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> IX>Fidonetovske pointy jsou zadarmo (nesetkal jsem se s nikym, kdo by za to
> IX>chtel penize), a u Infimy je to na 90% taky zadarmo.
>
> IX>Hynek
>
> Na 100%.
Jo,ale kdyz to najdu ve sve lokalni poste je uplne neco jineho....
viz.FIGA
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:34:28 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: Dotaz na Winsock
> Vazeni pratele
> Zjistuji, zda-li je mozne provozovat Trumpet Winsock v siti Novell NetWare
> 4.1 tak, aby byl mozny pristup do Internetu z kterehokoliv pocitace site,
Toto je vse co jsem si zapamotavola z asi rok stareho mailu z Fido
Netu:
Je program,ktery umoznuje sharing modemu.Je dostupny na nektere
ceske BBS,ale pochybuju ze by v inetu nebul taky.
bohuzel nevim jak se jmenuje ale pokusim se to najit ( tak 5%)
> prestoze je modem pripojen jen k jedne pracovni stanici. Je-li to nejak
Presne.
> mozne a nemate cas poskytnout mi podrobny navod, poradte mi aspon kde
> informace ziskat.
s pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
A jdu hledat......
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:11:46 GMT+1200
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vincent Kravec
Organization: TU Kosice, Mechanical Engineering
Subject: Re: Dotaz na Winsock
X-To: Petr Snajdr
=>Priority: normal
=>Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:34:28 MET-2DST
=>Send reply to: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
=>From: Petr Snajdr
=>Organization: VSZ BRNO
=>Subject: Re: Dotaz na Winsock
=>To: Multiple recipients of list CSINFO-L
=>> Vazeni pratele
=>> Zjistuji, zda-li je mozne provozovat Trumpet Winsock v siti Novell NetWare
=>> 4.1 tak, aby byl mozny pristup do Internetu z kterehokoliv pocitace site,
=>
=>Toto je vse co jsem si zapamotavola z asi rok stareho mailu z Fido
=>Netu:
=> Je program,ktery umoznuje sharing modemu.Je dostupny na nektere
=>ceske BBS,ale pochybuju ze by v inetu nebul taky.
=>bohuzel nevim jak se jmenuje ale pokusim se to najit ( tak 5%)
=>
=>
=>> prestoze je modem pripojen jen k jedne pracovni stanici. Je-li to nejak
=>
=>Presne.
Neviem ci je to o tom ale existuje aj priamo podpora od novelu na zdielany
modem . Len teraz si nepamatam ci na lubovolnom PC v sieti alebo priamo na
servri
vincent kravec FVU SjF TU Kosice, Letna 9 041 87 Kosice
e-mail: kravec@sjfnov.tuke.sk tel :095/399062-73 kl. 485
supervisor: sjfnov.tuke.sk
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:54:48 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
On Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:30:08 MET-2DST you wrote:
>> ... Ve FIDU je vsechno jinak ...
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Prave.uzivatele Inetu si nemuzou zvyknout,ze signaturu na
>celou stranu musi zaplatit nekdo cizi a ti cizi maji nekdy taky
>_dost_ podivne nazory ( nekdy jsem mel az dojem,ze Inet berou jako
>konkurenci...to nechapu).
Mozna bych to rad trochu uvedl na pravou miru - jako clovek co FidoNet
v zdejsich krajich zalozil (v roce 1989), rozebehl a po radu let take
urcitym zpusobem dotoval se k tomu celkem spolehlive mohu vyjadrit.
FidoNet je neco jineho nez Internet. FidoNet je totalne amaterska sit.
K tomu aby se ve FidoNetu jedna zprava (at jiz e-mail [netmail] nebo
news [konference]) dostala kamkoliv, je nutne aby postupne prosla pres
(i desitky) spoustu systemu pomoci docasneho modemoveho spojeni, tj.
zadne online, zadna rychla pater. Za kazdy takovyto prenos nekdo PLATI
penize. To znamena, ze pokud ja jako osoba napisu zpravu na svem
prazskem fidoNet system (2:420/77 alias CODA PRAHA BBS) a umistim ji
do konference (treba) WAN.42, tak uzivatel v Brne si ji precte tak
zhruba behem pul dne. Mezitim ji na vlastni naklady poslu jinemu
prazskemu systemu, ze ktereho si ji nekdo na vlastni naklady vyzvedne
a dotahne do Brna a pote ji nekdo dalsi na vlastni naklady dopravi ke
konecnemu citateli.
Ty vlastni naklady jsou hrozne jednoduche - uz dva roky jsem
"importoval" do ceskeho regionu zahranicni konference (respektive
jejich malou rozumnou cast), telefonni poplatky tohoto importu
predstavuji TRI az PET TISIC korun mesicne (a pritom slo o prenos do
max. 1MB denne) diky tomu ze nejblizsi misto kde je vzit bylo Nemecko
a tim padem platba jako krava.
Je sice napriklad pravda ze (narozdil od Internetu) se vsechna data
pakuji (ARJ, ZIP) a tim padem vyse citovany 1MB predstavovalo i treba
5 az 8MB skutecne posty, ale i tak to znamena znacnou financni zatez.
Navic, spousta lidi ma jenom 2400bps modemy a plati si FidoNet z
vlastnich domacich penez (nebo i penez rodicu) a proto je celkem
pochopitelna urcita alergicka reakce na signatury (ktere jsou proste
ve FidoNet ZAKAZANE uz radu let a po celem svete) ci na jakekoliv
navysovani ceny pomoci delky zprav (i prehnany quoting je veci prisne
hlidanou).
Mimo tuto zcela rozumne vysvetlitelnou zalezitost je zde jeste
psychologicky prvek - fidonet je prezdivan Fight'o'net a nekterymi
jedincy nyni take ParanoidNet. Nemohu si pomoci, Internet (mozna) diky
delsi dobe existence a jinemu slozeni lidi ma previ jenom malicko
lepsi uroven. FidoNet se prevazne sklada z nezletilych a pubertalnich
jedincu, vetsina bordelu a podivnosti je pachana proste jenom z hecu a
protoze oni nemaji co delat. Fidonet oplyva urcitou "naladou" a
"hysterii", kdy pravidelne mesic co mesic vypukaji masove diskuse na
totalne nesmyslna temata (pravidelne napriklad diskuse o tom jake
kodovani cestiny - fidonet totiz jede porad jenom a exklusivne na
Kamenickych). Takze cele toto spolecenstvi je potreba brat tak jak
je....
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 22:03:55 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
In-Reply-To:
On 14 Dec 1995, Petr Snajdr wrote:
> Jo,ale kdyz to najdu ve sve lokalni poste je uplne neco jineho....
> viz.FIGA
Takze k fize - pred chvili jsem zjistil, ze mail na toho cloveka, co
dela novou verzi gatewaye, je pry Ivo Hulinsky (huld@a1fel.feld.cvut.cz nebo
hulinsky@feld.cvut.cz) a SysOp a1fel BBS je nyni Martin Straka
(straka@a1fel.feld.cvut.cz).
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:21:52 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Matus Uhlar
Organization: Slovak Academic Network Kosice
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
Daniel Docekal (daniel%MAIL.CODALAN.CZ@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
-> On Tue, 12 Dec 1995 08:40:19 MET-1EET you wrote:
->
-> > BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
-> >Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
-> >uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
->
-> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
-> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
-> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
-> pravo na to nema)....
Haha vy ste optimista.
Kedysi davno, pri vzniku unixu, sa dali zakodovane hesla do suboru ktory bol
a je verejne citatelny. V sucasnosti je takych unixov este vela a existuje
takisto balik ktory umoznuje tieto hesla dekodovat. Preto (skoro) kazda nova
verzia unixovskeho systemo uz obsahuje druhy subor v ktorom to heslo je,
citat ho moze iba spravca a aj tak su hesla zakodovane.
Kazda sifra je rozlustitelna, len niektora lahsie niektora tazsie.
A mimochodom, dat uzivatelovi vsetky prava znamena dat mu vsetky prava...
aj na mazanie.
--
Matus Uhlar at Regional node of SANET in Kosice, Slovakia
E-mail: Matus.Uhlar@tuke.sk NTALK: uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk
IRC: fantomas PGP: finger uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk | pgp
...I'd like to add something cool here, but I don't know what ;-)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:10:36 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> Mimo tuto zcela rozumne vysvetlitelnou zalezitost je zde jeste
> psychologicky prvek - fidonet je prezdivan Fight'o'net a nekterymi
> jedincy nyni take ParanoidNet. Nemohu si pomoci, Internet (mozna) diky
Mozna,ze to to vse vysvetluje.Rozhodne jsem nechtel _nikoho_
napadnout.
FidoNet je dobra vec a me se libi.jen jsem nemoch pochopit nektere
veci.Jako treba duvody proc nektere konferenci nemuzou chodit pres
FIGU ( moderator si to nepral ap.) a proc se nekteri jedinci
tak hlasite zasazovali o to FIGU uvest mimo provoz.
Je pravda,ze nekteri uzivatele Inetu se chovali na Fido _dost_
nevychovane (dlouhe signatury,odpoved na jeden radek s include celeho
2- strankoveho textu).Je taky pravda,ze nekdy blaznila FIGA
(zdvojene
dopisy z FIDA ap. i kdyz Fidonet mi muj mail do konference vratil asi
po 3/4 roce .... FROM:ja ;-))) ).
> delsi dobe existence a jinemu slozeni lidi ma previ jenom malicko
> lepsi uroven. FidoNet se prevazne sklada z nezletilych a pubertalnich
No snad mozna.......je to tim.
(i kdyz o zakaz FIGY usilovali uz davno ne ------"----------)
> jedincu, vetsina bordelu a podivnosti je pachana proste jenom z hecu a
> protoze oni nemaji co delat. Fidonet oplyva urcitou "naladou" a
> "hysterii", kdy pravidelne mesic co mesic vypukaji masove diskuse na
> totalne nesmyslna temata (pravidelne napriklad diskuse o tom jake
> kodovani cestiny - fidonet totiz jede porad jenom a exklusivne na
> Kamenickych). Takze cele toto spolecenstvi je potreba brat tak jak
> je....
Za celou dobu pobytu ve fidonetu jsem nabyl pouze jedineho dojmu.
je to prvni sit ,ktera ma tendeci se od ostatnich odizolovavat.
(aspon nekterym sysopum by se to libilo)
A kdyz jsme u Tech penez.Jak to asi vyjde sysopum levnej.Kdyz jsem
posilal
postu pres Fido a nebo ted pres Gate v Rakousku ( pokud ji nekdo
nezna tak pres fidonet.org ) ?
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:39:58 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Vodicka
Organization: VSZ Brno
Subject: Re: Dotaz na Winsock
> Vazeni pratele
> Zjistuji, zda-li je mozne provozovat Trumpet Winsock v siti Novell NetWare
> 4.1 tak, aby byl mozny pristup do Internetu z kterehokoliv pocitace site,
> prestoze je modem pripojen jen k jedne pracovni stanici. Je-li to nejak
> mozne a nemate cas poskytnout mi podrobny navod, poradte mi aspon kde
> informace ziskat.
Mozna, ze existuje rada free-sharewaru. Jiste ale existuje i product
Netware Connect, ktery funguje jako NLM modul na serveru. Prakticke
zkusenosti s nim nemam, a dokonce ani nevim, jak to podporuje TCP/IP.
Stoji (asi) kolem 10 az 15 tisic. Informace by se daly stahnout napr. z
www.novell.de nebo www.novell.com ci nekde jinde.
Zdravi
Petr Vodicka
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:23:08 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:10:36 MET-2DST you wrote:
>FidoNet je dobra vec a me se libi.jen jsem nemoch pochopit nektere
>veci.Jako treba duvody proc nektere konferenci nemuzou chodit pres
>FIGU ( moderator si to nepral ap.) a proc se nekteri jedinci
>tak hlasite zasazovali o to FIGU uvest mimo provoz.
Rekneme ze v tom je cast ceske ponekud problematicke povahy. Mozna i
zavist nebo vztek z toho, ze oni nemaji co nekdo jiny ma a naopak.
Pripadne snaha manipulovat a ovladat vse co je mozne. [skutecne pripad
nekolika velmi kriklavych odpurcu FIGa, jen tak mimochodem]
>2- strankoveho textu).Je taky pravda,ze nekdy blaznila FIGA
>(zdvojene dopisy z FIDA ap. i kdyz Fidonet mi muj mail do konference vratil asi
>po 3/4 roce .... FROM:ja ;-))) ).
No, jako fidonetista mam k FIGA nekolik vyhrad - 1) nechapu proc na ni
nekdo musel psat specielni software [vecne zlobici] kdyz staci vzit
napriklad GIGO a gateway je hotova. Podobnym zpusobem je totiz resena
vetsina "oficielnich" gatewayi. 2) FIGA se vzdy ohanela tim, ze
vlastne dela neco co nesmi, ze ji to autority nemohou oficielne
povolit a kdesi cosi, z meho hlediska je to nesmysl. Rozhodnu-li se,
tak zitra nainstaluji GIGO a od pondeli muze na mail.codalan.cz jet
nova Fidonet gateway [problem je ze se mi o ni nechce starat] a nebude
zatizena zadnou registraci, problemy s jmeny a kdovi cim dalsim. 3)
lide provozujici FIGA ponekud postradaji takt a diplomacii nutnou k
udrzeni takove veci v provozu, na vetsinu stiznosti neragovali vubec
nebo zcela nesmyslne a reseni vyskytujicich se problemu bylo spis
jejich neresenim...
>Za celou dobu pobytu ve fidonetu jsem nabyl pouze jedineho dojmu.
>je to prvni sit ,ktera ma tendeci se od ostatnich odizolovavat.
>(aspon nekterym sysopum by se to libilo)
Rekneme ze je to ceske specifikum, kdyby to melo byt vlastni cele
siti, tak dodnes neexistuji mraky jinych gate (jako treba ta
rakouska).
>A kdyz jsme u Tech penez.Jak to asi vyjde sysopum levnej.Kdyz jsem
>posilal
>postu pres Fido a nebo ted pres Gate v Rakousku ( pokud ji nekdo
>nezna tak pres fidonet.org ) ?
No, nevyjde, ale to oni nevydi protoze to nejsou primo oni kdo to
plati. Zaplati to totiz ten nestastnik, ktery pro region42 (cechy a
morava) plati import netmailu (v pripade routovane posty) nebo nekdo
uplne jinde a jinak.
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:12:53 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> No, jako fidonetista mam k FIGA nekolik vyhrad - 1) nechapu proc na ni
> nekdo musel psat specielni software [vecne zlobici] kdyz staci vzit
> napriklad GIGO a gateway je hotova. Podobnym zpusobem je totiz resena
To je mi taky zahadou.Dnes jsem zahledl na Inetu asi dva softy pro
FODo-Inet gateway for Linux.
> vetsina "oficielnich" gatewayi. 2) FIGA se vzdy ohanela tim, ze
> vlastne dela neco co nesmi, ze ji to autority nemohou oficielne
> povolit a kdesi cosi, z meho hlediska je to nesmysl. Rozhodnu-li se,
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ Presne ! To je ono :-(
> tak zitra nainstaluji GIGO a od pondeli muze na mail.codalan.cz jet
> nova Fidonet gateway [problem je ze se mi o ni nechce starat] a nebude
.....
>
> >Za celou dobu pobytu ve fidonetu jsem nabyl pouze jedineho dojmu.
> >je to prvni sit ,ktera ma tendeci se od ostatnich odizolovavat.
> >(aspon nekterym sysopum by se to libilo)
>
> Rekneme ze je to ceske specifikum, kdyby to melo byt vlastni cele
No Comment :-(
> rakouska).
......
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:20:23 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Matus Uhlar
Organization: Slovak Academic Network Kosice
Subject: Re: Najde se nejaky named/DNS guru?
In newsgroup cz.net.csinfo you wrote:
-> Nasel by se nejaky named/DNS guru, kteremu bych mohl poslat soubory
-> (databaze) pro named pro kontrolu? Rad bych aby to chodilo a pokud
-> mozno spravne.
Precitali ste si RFC ?
JA hej a kazdu chvilu otravujem okolitych ludi s tym co kde maju preco zle
:)
Nuz, robim si privatny sekundarny nameserver pre cele kosice, mozem aj pre
vas... a kadza chyba sa hned objavi...alebo to mozete posielat mne :)
--
Matus Uhlar at Regional node of SANET in Kosice, Slovakia
E-mail: Matus.Uhlar@tuke.sk NTALK: uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk
IRC: fantomas PGP: finger uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk | pgp
...I'd like to add something cool here, but I don't know what ;-)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:06:55 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?krem=BEsk=E1_HO=D8=C8ICE?=
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: several messages about Netscape and charsets
This is to follow up on a message I posted last weekend...
> > (But wouldn't these tags confuse
> > browsers, which use non-ISO-Latin2 fonts, like Netscape for MS-Windows?
Having just had experience with this Netscape beta version, the
present beta of Netscape doesn't quite work right. You could point your
finger at Micro$oft for making use of a code page which is different in
certain code positions from the ISO_8859-2 code page which is the
on-the-wire standard for Central European data. The browser is not
confused (actually, it will try to display Latin-2 characters if your
default charset is otherwise, so it's working, to an extent).
Netscape performs the switching based on the MIME charset tag, which
can be provided within a document by the META HTTP-EQUIV tag as mentioned
in previous messages and in the Netscape 2.0beta release notes. What
Netscape recognizes to select the Latin-2 encoding is ISO-8859-2 (or some
unregistered Mac font), which will then display the page based on the font
you have specified under your preferences.
In my test, with the Central European Windoze that I suspect sees
wide usage, the fonts which were available to me were a font with Latin-1
characters, which corresponds to the ISO-8859-1 MIME charset with no
problems, a CE font, and a Cyrillic font, and others I did not pay much
attention to.
The problem is that Central European Windoze ships with a CE font
which doesn't quite match ISO 8859-2, and if people select that font,
certain characters are displayed incorrectly, as Slovak and Czech users
are well aware. If one were to provide a font with the correct characters
to match the ISO 8859-2 definition, this would not be a problem. But
that's not the way the system I was using was configured. I'm not aware
of a font that matches ISO 8859-2 which one can use with Windows, but I'm
sure there is one available somewhere.
The Windows code page for Central European languages is CP1250. This
is mentioned in RFC1345, as well as a package of charsets I retrieved from
Germany. Offhand, I do not know if the definition provided in RFC1345 is
entirely correct -- I do know that in the package called trans100, some of
the characters which appeared on the screen were different from the
description of these characters. Furthermore, some widely-distributed
documents claim incorrectly that this code page matches the ISO 8859-2
standard.
Because it is to be preferred that data delivered over-the-wire make
use of the ISO 8859-2 encoding standard, rather than a platform-specific
standard (or non-standard), my opinion is that Netscape should recognize
this encoding and be able to translate from this to CP1250 (as CP1250 is
not understood by Netscape as a MIME charset, even though it is
registered by virtue of being included in RFC1345). I think CP1250
contains all the characters in ISO 8859-2, with some of them in different
positions, so a mapping should not be a problem. I would rather see this
than see documents delivered with MIME charset tagging of CP1250. As the
MIME RFCs note, as small a number of charsets as possible is preferred.
I'm sending this to the Netscape for Windows bugs address as well as
posting to CSINFO-L/cz.net.csinfo, to offer this as a suggestion, which is
why I am explaining things that are well-known -- I do not know if Windows
fonts can be distinguished by encoding the way X fonts can, making it
possible to provide translation for CP1250 but leaving some
ISO-8859-2-compliant user-supplied font untranslated. If not, then I
would suggest hardcoding the translation, since CP1250 is probably as
ubiquitous with Central European Windows as ISO-8859-2 should be as the
preferred Internet format.
Again, the page previously noted with the META HTTP-EQUIV MIME
charset tagging of ISO-8859-2 found at http://www.vszbr.cz/~guest/ will
display Latin-2 characters properly under X with ISO Latin-2 fonts, but
certain chracters are incorrect under Windows and code page CP1250
(z-caron is one of them).
Barry Bouwsma
visiting MZLU Brno, CZ
> No more than delivering the document without the tagging. Ideally,
> the client (Netscape) can perform the mapping from the over-the-wire
> encoding defined in the META MIME charset tag, to the display font which
> is in use locally. But I don't know if the ISO-8859-2 -> CP1250 mapping
> is in place in MS-Win Netscape, likewise with Mac Netscape.
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:05:58 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Ivan Janda
Organization: Institute of Microbiology, Prague
Subject: Jeste jednou k lokalizaci Windows
Vazeni,
prave na mne wokna vybafly dalsi neuveritelny plk:
WINPMAIL zpusobila nepritomnou chybu
v modulu KRNL386.EXE na 0001:4E65
Zavrit
Ja dodavam: Zavrit je malo!
================================================
Dr. Ivan Janda
Institute of Microbiology
Czech Academy of Sciences
Videnska 1083
CZ-142 20 Prague 4
Czech Republic
Phone: (+42 2) 475 25 12, Fax: (+42 2) 472 22 57
Internet: janda@biomed.cas.cz
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:45:16 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Michal Krsek
Organization: University of West Bohemia
Subject: Re: Dotaz na kvalitu a zkusenosti s MAIL602 3.0
On 12 Dec 1995, Daniel Docekal wrote:
> > BTW: jaka je situace s Mail602 Net a pridelovanim prav na sitovem disku?
> >Pred rokem jsem se bavil s nejakym agentem602, ktery mi tvrdil, ze da't vsem
> >uzivatelum vsechna prava do postovniho adresare je naprosto normalni vec.
>
> A v cem je problem? Proc by si nekdo cizi nemohl cist postovni adresar
> moji osoby, kdyz je v nem vsechno kodovane a z te binarni zmeti
> nepochopi vubec nic. Dulezite je ze nemuze mazat (coz nemuze protoze
> pravo na to nema)....
Oops ? Prava na mazani tam snad budou take ne ? Nebo mail602 patri k
nemnoha programum, ktere nemazou obsah souboru jeho smazanim a vytvorenim
noveho ?
Mike
P.S: Nazory uvedene v teto zprave nejsou v zadne korelaci s postoji Zapadoceske
Univerzity at uz jako celku nebo jejich casti.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 07:25:30 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: Technical University of Brno, Czech Republic
Subject: Linux a NTFS Windows NT
Dobry den,
vim,ze Linux umi pouzivat disky DOSu(FAT),DOSu s DoubleSpace,OS/2(HPFS),
MacIntoshe(HFS) a ted jsem zjistil,ze 'umi' i NTFS z Windows NT.
Uz jste to nekdo pouzil ? Jak to zachazi s komprimovanym diskem ?
Je mozno to pouzit podobne jako jsem nekdy pouzival UMS tz. nabootuju
ze 2 disket (boot a root disk) a udelam mount NTFS partion ?
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 07:37:24 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ivo Musil
Subject: Re: Dotaz na Winsock
> Je program,ktery umoznuje sharing modemu.Je dostupny na nektere
> ceske BBS,ale pochybuju ze by v inetu nebul taky.
> bohuzel nevim jak se jmenuje ale pokusim se to najit ( tak 5%)
Hral jsem si v podstate s uspecham s shareware STOMPER a na Inetu se
to roste:
http://dyson.brisnet.org.au/~cugq/stomper.html
Ivo(sh) Musil
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:27:58 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "Hendrych Libor, 2I"
Vazeni pratele,
zajimalo by me zda existuje nejaky program, ktery by konvertoval
textove soubory vytvorene editorem SIGNUM II (Atari ST) na textove
soubory citelne v MS-DOSu (a naopak: DOS -> SIGNUM II). Pokud nekdo
mate jakekoliv informace, zaslete mi je prosim na adresu:
HENDRYCH@PORT.TROJA.MFF.CUNI.CZ
Diky,
Libor Hendrych
P.S. Nejsem clenem konference.
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:03:50 MET-1EET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Pavel Satrapa
Organization: Liberec University of Technology
Subject: Konec Miss Page se blizi...
X-To: net@cs.felk.cvut.cz, www-l@neo.cz
Damy a panove,
pokud se chystate doprat si vanocni klid, dovoluji si vas upozornit, ze
zbyva uz jen tyden, abyste dali sve hlasy nejlepsim domacim WWW strankam.
Anketa Miss Page podzim '95 konci o pulnoci 31. prosince. Podrobnejsi
informace i odkaz na hlasovaci listek najdete na URL
http://www.cesnet.cz/MissPage/
Preji vsem pekny den a hezke vanoce
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pavel Satrapa Liberec University of Technology
E-Mail: Pavel.Satrapa@vslib.cz Dept. of Computer Science
Phone: +42-48-5227-374 Halkova 6, 461 17 Liberec
Fax: +42-48-5100-865 Czech Republic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 19:03:02 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Pavel Zakouril
Organization: MFF UK Praha, V Holesovickach 2, CZ
Subject: Internet zdarma?
Vazeni pratele,
prave se mi dostal do ruky velmi zajimavy letak s informacemi o
nabidce firmy Video On Line (VOL) pokud jde o pripojeni do Internetu. V
nabidce je citovan reditel VOL a myslim, ze tento citat zaujme i radu
ucastniku teto konference:
"Jsem presvedcen, ze do dvou let bude poskytovan pristup na Internet
zdarma. Take proto nasim zakaznikum nabizime vubec nejlevnejsi
poplatek ve vysi 495 Kc mesicne, ktery umoznuje spojeni neomezene ani
casove, ani mnozstvim prenesenych dat."
Podle letaku ma VOL vlastni linku mimo republiku (zatim 512 kb/s,
behem nekolika tydnu pry bude 1.5 Mb/s).
Vi o cele veci nekdo neco dalsiho, jake jsou reakce CESNETu a
Internetu CZ ?
Pavel Zakouril
KEVF MFF UK
V Holesovickach 2
182 00 Praha 8
Czech Republic
tel +42-(2)-85762731
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 19:44:03 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: petr prenghy
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
At 07:03 PM 12/15/95 +0100, you wrote:
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> prave se mi dostal do ruky velmi zajimavy letak s informacemi o
>nabidce firmy Video On Line (VOL) pokud jde o pripojeni do Internetu. V
>nabidce je citovan reditel VOL a myslim, ze tento citat zaujme i radu
>ucastniku teto konference:
>"Jsem presvedcen, ze do dvou let bude poskytovan pristup na Internet
>zdarma. Take proto nasim zakaznikum nabizime vubec nejlevnejsi
>poplatek ve vysi 495 Kc mesicne, ktery umoznuje spojeni neomezene ani
>casove, ani mnozstvim prenesenych dat."
>Podle letaku ma VOL vlastni linku mimo republiku (zatim 512 kb/s,
>behem nekolika tydnu pry bude 1.5 Mb/s).
>
>Vi o cele veci nekdo neco dalsiho, jake jsou reakce CESNETu a
>Internetu CZ ?
>
dobry den prizniovci internetu
ja osobne jsem priznivec myslenky internetu zadarmo, nadruhou stranu vim
kolik stoji pevna linka o kapacite 512kbps do amsterodamu ci do vidne +
poplatky mezinarodnich provideru, mohu vas ujistit, ze nejde ani o
statisicove castky natoz tahat linku do italie, pricemz trafik na ameriku ci
dale do sveta jde stejne pres amsterodam ci viden /zkuste si trace na
www.vol.cz/, s touto otazkou souvisi tzv. peering agreement, ale ten se
jiste nebude tykat tyden stareho nezkuseneho providera.
a co pomer sil v poskytovani internetu v italii, neni to tak dlouho, co jsem
se se svym kamaradem, pochazejicim z okoli Milana, bavil o situaci prave ve
zminovane zemi, firmu vol nezna, jen italsky telekom.
par otazek k zamysleni:
na jak dlouho zadarmo ? - jiste nejde o reklamni kampan !
s ceho si budou italsti provideri platit benzin do Ferrari ? - cesta do
italie je daleka !
ktera zeme na svete ma internet zadarmo ? - severni amerika je pozadu !
kdyz budu mit technicky problem, prijede technik az ke mne domu - zadarmo ?
internet zadarmo - ja chci 64kbps pevnou linku az do baraku !
Skeptik je prave ten clovek, ktery ma k dispozici nejvice informaci.
prominte mi jestli jsem nekoho urazil nebo nekomu otevrel oci.
petr prenghy
petr@aci.cvut.cz
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 20:20:53 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Pavel Zakouril
Organization: MFF UK Praha, V Holesovickach 2, CZ
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
> > Vazeni pratele,
> >
> > prave se mi dostal do ruky velmi zajimavy letak s informacemi o
....
> dobry den prizniovci internetu
>
> ja osobne jsem priznivec myslenky internetu zadarmo, nadruhou stranu vim
> kolik stoji pevna linka o kapacite 512kbps do amsterodamu ci do vidne +
> poplatky mezinarodnich provideru, mohu vas ujistit, ze nejde ani o
> statisicove castky natoz tahat linku do italie, pricemz trafik na ameriku ci
> dale do sveta jde stejne pres amsterodam ci viden /zkuste si trace na
> www.vol.cz/, s touto otazkou souvisi tzv. peering agreement, ale ten se
> jiste nebude tykat tyden stareho nezkuseneho providera.
> a co pomer sil v poskytovani internetu v italii, neni to tak dlouho, co jsem
> se se svym kamaradem, pochazejicim z okoli Milana, bavil o situaci prave ve
> zminovane zemi, firmu vol nezna, jen italsky telekom.
>
> par otazek k zamysleni:
>
> na jak dlouho zadarmo ? - jiste nejde o reklamni kampan !
> s ceho si budou italsti provideri platit benzin do Ferrari ? - cesta do
> italie je daleka !
> ktera zeme na svete ma internet zadarmo ? - severni amerika je pozadu !
> kdyz budu mit technicky problem, prijede technik az ke mne domu - zadarmo ?
> internet zadarmo - ja chci 64kbps pevnou linku az do baraku !
>
> Skeptik je prave ten clovek, ktery ma k dispozici nejvice informaci.
> prominte mi jestli jsem nekoho urazil nebo nekomu otevrel oci.
>
> petr prenghy
> petr@aci.cvut.cz
>
Ja samozrejme souhlasim s tim, ze zadarmo je extrem, na nejz asi
nedojde, ale prijde mi, ze soucasny stav, kdy napr. stredni skola
plati 1500 Kc mesicne za to, aby ziskala pristup na neustale obsazeny
SLIP server, na ktery (pokud uz se snad podari dovolat) se spojeni
udrzi nekolik minut, je zase druhy extrem... Doufam proto, ze i diky nabidka
poroste a ceny budou klesat...
Pavel Zakouril
KEVF MFF UK
V Holesovickach 2
182 00 Praha 8
Czech Republic
tel +42-(2)-85762731
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:30:51 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Kristof Petr
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
>
> poplatky mezinarodnich provideru, mohu vas ujistit, ze nejde ani ...
> zkuste si trace na www.vol.cz/,
>
sem udelal. pro ty co nemaji cas na takovy srandicky,
vysledek :
1. 147.229.28.2 rout-uai.fce.vutbr.cz (158 ms)
2. 147.229.16.1 rtvev.fce.vutbr.cz (11 ms)
3. 147.229.246.1 routics.ics.muni.cz (13 ms)
4. 147.251.17.1 (15 ms)
5. 192.108.151.9 rab-rbm.cesnet.cz (232 ms)
6. 192.121.159.41 Vienna-EBS1.Ebone.NET (475 ms)
7. 192.121.156.17 Paris-EBS2.Ebone.net (752 ms)
8. 192.121.156.9 Paris-EBS1.Ebone.net (523 ms)
9. 192.121.154.21 Stockholm-ebs.ebone.net (597 ms)
10. 194.68.128.18 Stockholm-DGIX.tip.net (596 ms)
11. 194.23.0.45 Stockholm-4.tip.net (458 ms)
12. ***
13. 194.20.0.142 Milano-4.tip.net (595 ms)
14. 194.20.0.253 Milano-3.tip.net (679 ms)
15. 194.20.7.66 (874 ms)
16. 192.168.100.1 (696 ms)
17. 192.168.10.6 (1051 ms)
18. 194.166.38.101 (661 ms)
Zdravim
====================================================================
| Kristof Petr kri@fce.vutbr.cz |
| Technical University Of Brno Dept. Of Computer Science |
| |
| Free As A Bird ... ...linux user |
====================================================================
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:12:08 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:30:51 +0100 you wrote:
>> poplatky mezinarodnich provideru, mohu vas ujistit, ze nejde ani ...
>> zkuste si trace na www.vol.cz/,
>>
>sem udelal. pro ty co nemaji cas na takovy srandicky,
>vysledek :
A to nejsou prosim jedini - dalsim prikladem muze byt www.bohemia.net
"oficielni" www server dalsich "provideru" za "vyhodne" ceny:
0 srv30 (194.108.146.65) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
1 srv30 (194.108.146.65) 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms
2 mail (194.108.146.55) 0 ms 32 ms 0 ms
3 asy1-tad.anet.cz (194.50.7.161) 156 ms 156 ms 156 ms
4 naa-chr-gw.anet.cz (194.50.6.129) 157 ms 156 ms 156 ms
5 rac-rae-gw.anet.cz (194.50.6.193) 156 ms 157 ms 156 ms
6 194.108.60.1 (194.108.60.1) 156 ms 125 ms 156 ms
7 Vienna-EBS1.Ebone.NET (192.121.159.41) 312 ms 407 ms 406 ms
8 Paris-EBS2.Ebone.net (192.121.156.17) 375 ms 437 ms 500 ms
9 Munich-EBS.Ebone.NET (192.121.158.9) 594 ms 500 ms 406 ms
10 muenchen.core.xlink.net (192.121.158.14) 625 ms 562 ms 563 ms
11 * karlsruhe.core.xlink.net (193.141.43.217) 594 ms 687 ms
12 win.karlsruhe.core.xlink.net (193.141.40.253) 657 ms * 562 ms
13 Prague05-core.Bohemia.Net (194.24.225.5) 469 ms 406 ms 969 ms
14 mailserv.Bohemia.Net (194.24.224.36) 688 ms 687 ms 657 ms
jejich zakazniku je mi lito a internetu taky, data evidentne tecou u
vsech takovychto skrz celou evropu. Navic, e-mail adresy lidi u techto
firem malokdy konci na .CZ a tech co od nich dostanou e-mail a zaplati
za nej je mi lito jeste vic.
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:50:24 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Rataj
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
petr prenghy (petr%ACI.CVUT.CZ@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
: >"Jsem presvedcen, ze do dvou let bude poskytovan pristup na Internet
: >zdarma. Take proto nasim zakaznikum nabizime vubec nejlevnejsi
: >poplatek ve vysi 495 Kc mesicne, ktery umoznuje spojeni neomezene ani
: >casove, ani mnozstvim prenesenych dat."
: na jak dlouho zadarmo ? - jiste nejde o reklamni kampan !
: ktera zeme na svete ma internet zadarmo ? - severni amerika je pozadu !
: kdyz budu mit technicky problem, prijede technik az ke mne domu - zadarmo ?
: internet zadarmo - ja chci 64kbps pevnou linku az do baraku !
Oni prece nepisou ze to je zadarmo, a pet stovek odpovida treba mesicni
sazbe spolecnosti Demon Internet v UK (deset liber pro komercni
i nekomercni zakazniky, PoP v kazdem vetsim meste -> platite navic
mimo spicku jen penci za minutu jako sazbu za telefon).
J.R.
--
Jiri Rataj
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:10:03 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Pavel Krbec
Subject: Re: Internet zdarma?
In-Reply-To: <199512151802.TAA03120@indigo-1.troja.mff.cuni.cz> from "Pavel
Zakouril" at Dec 15, 95 07:03:02 pm
Vazeny pane kolego,
Pokud vam nekdo nabizi neco zadarmo, tak to berte a necekejte na reakce
CESNETu, INTERNETU-CZ ani nikoho dalsiho. Ale veci zadarmo byvaji pekne
drahe.
S pranim hezkych Vanoc
Pavel Krbec
UVT UK
According to Pavel Zakouril:
>
>
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> prave se mi dostal do ruky velmi zajimavy letak s informacemi o
> nabidce firmy Video On Line (VOL) pokud jde o pripojeni do Internetu. V
> nabidce je citovan reditel VOL a myslim, ze tento citat zaujme i radu
> ucastniku teto konference:
> "Jsem presvedcen, ze do dvou let bude poskytovan pristup na Internet
> zdarma. Take proto nasim zakaznikum nabizime vubec nejlevnejsi
> poplatek ve vysi 495 Kc mesicne, ktery umoznuje spojeni neomezene ani
> casove, ani mnozstvim prenesenych dat."
> Podle letaku ma VOL vlastni linku mimo republiku (zatim 512 kb/s,
> behem nekolika tydnu pry bude 1.5 Mb/s).
>
> Vi o cele veci nekdo neco dalsiho, jake jsou reakce CESNETu a
> Internetu CZ ?
>
> Pavel Zakouril
> KEVF MFF UK
> V Holesovickach 2
> 182 00 Praha 8
> Czech Republic
> tel +42-(2)-85762731
>
--
#
#
# Pavel Krbec
# Charles University Computer Centre
# Ovocny trh 5, 116 36 Prague 1,
# Czech Republic
# phone +42 2 24 491 232
# fax +42 2 24 213 392
#
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 15:47:32 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: Technical University of Brno, Czech Republic
Subject: How to crash WNT with smbclient
X-URL: news:cz.net.csinfo
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dobry den,
hledal jsem nejake informace pro novell-like server nad Linuxem a nasel tohle.
Co je na tom pravdy ?
While looking for the WFWG Lan Manager security bug (the one which
allows any user to cd ..\ on an exported volume to access files not
exported),
I found that you can crash WNT (3.51 build 1057, at least) very easily.
I did this using smbclient (Samba is an excellent freeware Lan Manager
server for any Unix, see http://lake.canberra.edu.au/pub/samba/) on a Unix
machine, but it obviously is not a client problem contrary to what Microsoft
tried to make us believe for the WFWG bug.
The funny thing is that you can crash any WNT machine on the Internet
if they have publicly-exported (i.e., no password) volumes... DON'T DO IT !
$ smbclient '\\pcnt\nttest'
Server time is Fri Dec 15 13:47:26 1995
Timezone is UTC+1.0
Password:
smb: \> dir ..\
The "dir ..\" above crashes the machine. Other commands ("rm ..\" for
example)
have the same effect).
Is this a known bug ?
Sounds like WNT still has a long way to go before it is as robust as
Microsoft
likes us to believe...
--
Pierre Beyssac pb@fasterix.frmug.fr.net pb@fasterix.freenix.fr
{Free,Net,Open}BSD, Linux : il y a moins bien, mais c'est plus cher
s pozdravem Petr Snajdr
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:10:42 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: How to crash WNT with smbclient
At 15:47 18.12.1995 GMT, you wrote:
>Dobry den,
>hledal jsem nejake informace pro novell-like server nad Linuxem a nasel tohle.
>Co je na tom pravdy ?
>
>I found that you can crash WNT (3.51 build 1057, at least) very easily.
Doporucil bych presunout diskusi na toto tema do
winnt-l@dec2000.faf.cuni.cz .
S pozdravem,
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 11:20:25 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: How to crash WNT with smbclient
> Doporucil bych presunout diskusi na toto tema do
> winnt-l@dec2000.faf.cuni.cz .
Jiz se tak stalo.
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:30:54 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ivan Vavra
Subject: X appeal - ovladac
Pri instalaci X appealu ver 1.4 (X Windows pro PC) na PC s grafickou
kartou Octek PVGA 1000 (1 MB, PCI), ekvivalent je Chip ARC 1000, jsem
zjistil, ze tato neni podporovana zadnym s dodanych driveru. Muze nekdo
poradit? Dekuji.
Ivan Vavra FzU
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 12:02:01 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "ing.BOBA-Inseko"
Subject: Re: X appeal - ovladac
In-Reply-To: from "Ivan Vavra"
at Dec 20, 95 10:30:54 am
>
> Pri instalaci X appealu ver 1.4 (X Windows pro PC) na PC s grafickou
> kartou Octek PVGA 1000 (1 MB, PCI), ekvivalent je Chip ARC 1000, jsem
> zjistil, ze tato neni podporovana zadnym s dodanych driveru. Muze nekdo
> poradit? Dekuji.
>
> Ivan Vavra FzU
>
Neviem ci Vam pomoze to co navrhujem, ale mozno predsa:
1, ste v prosredi DOS alebo Windows ?
2, ak ste v DOS-e asi mate smolu
3, ak bezite Windows, a nie ste viazany na pouzitie Xappealu,
skuste pouzit iny PC X server - navrhujem Vam Reflection X.
Predpokladam ze ste na akademickej pode takze Vam mozem ponuknut
bezplatnu beta verziu tohto softveru (podotykam je stabilnejsia ako
ostre verzie podobnych produktov, ktore som mal k dispozicii - eXceed,
EntranceX, XVision, PC X View...)
Ak by ste si chceli Reflection X vyskusat, ostru ale casovo
ohraanicenu verziu najdete na:
ftp: bull.utc.sk
login:ftpza
password:insekosoft
PS:samozrejme je tam popis, co ktory adresar obsahuje
S pozdrevom Ing. ROman BOba
e-mail: roman@fpedas.utc.sk
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:00:38 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jindrich Jindrich
Subject: Re: X appeal - ovladac
Posledni verzi X appeal, ktera umi prakticky vsechny graficke
karty lze dostat na adrese:
ftp://ftp.xtreme.it/pub/xappeal/beta
nicmene tam maji velice pomale napojeni napojeni na internet,
takze je nejlepe prenaset nekdy po pulnoci.
Nemuzu sice rict, ze by ta grafika chodila na prvni pokus, ale rozchodit
se to da.
Jindrich
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:52:35 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Eduard Vopicka
Subject: clanky o Personnel Recruitment
Dobry den,
pred delsi dobou (myslim, ze priblizne pred rokem az dvema a pul)
jsem cetl v nejakem pocitacovem periodiku novinoveho formatu serial
clanku od nejakeho cizince (Americana?), ktery v Ceske republice dela
Personnel Recruitment. Clanky byly prave na toto tema. Nevi nahodou
nekdo, v cem a kdy priblizne to vychazelo?
Dekuji predem,
Eduard Vopicka
--
"Eduard Vopicka, Computing Centre, Prague University of Economics,
W. Churchill Square 4, CZ 130 67 Prague 3"
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:30:57 MET-1DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Dan Lukes
Organization: LVT Troja, MFF UK Prague,Czech Rep.
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
DD wrote:
> No, jako fidonetista mam k FIGA nekolik vyhrad - 1) nechapu proc na ni
> nekdo musel psat specielni software [vecne zlobici] kdyz staci vzit
Nejsem si jist, jestli uz tehdy GIGO existoval, mozna ano, ale hlavni
duvod vzniku softwaru pro FIGu a potazmo FIGY same byla rocnikova ci
diplomova ci kteryho certa prace pozdejsiho dlouhodobeho spravce FIGy. No a
uznejme, ze se (az na vyjimky neschopnych programatoru) lepe spravuje a
konfiguruje software, ktery si sam napsal nez cizi ...
Problem nastal az ve chvili, kdy tento spravce odesel a novy spravce
mel pochopitelne s timto softwarem problemy. No uznejme, ze starat se o
cizi, v podstate neznamy program je slozite.
> 2) FIGA se vzdy ohanela tim, ze vlastne dela neco co nesmi
...
> Rozhodnu-li se, od pondeli muze na mail.codalan.cz jet nova Fidonet
> gateway [problem je ze se mi o ni nechce starat] a nebude
To si klidne udelej, Coda si jiste pripojeni na Internet plati sama a
tak si muze delat co chce (samozrejme s rezervou). FEL je na akademicke,
tedy Cesnetem (a v konecnem dusledku MSMT) placene a tam jsou jakasi omezeni
co se na nich smi a co nesmi ...
Dan
Dan Lukes, Patkova 3/B1206, Praha 8, Czech Republic
tel +42-(2)-8551040 ext 776, E-Mail: LUKES(or Postmaster)@Menza.MFF.CUNI.CZ
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 11:53:03 MET-1DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Dan Lukes
Organization: LVT Troja, MFF UK Prague,Czech Rep.
Subject: Re: Word ...
Juraj Panko psal:
> U zastupcov prislusnej firmy (ako vsetok komercny SW :-) V kosiciach je to
> napriklad lynx (skuste postu na ?????@lynx.sk (neviem kto to tam ma na
> starosti)
Je jiste "nosenim informaci do knihovny" kdyz pripomenu teto velevazene
spolecnosti, ze dle normy (RRFC822) na kazde domene na kterou se adresuje
posta je povinna existence uzivatele POSTMASTER. A u toho by se asi dalo
zjistit, kdo to tam ma na starosti ...
DL
Dan Lukes, Patkova 3/B1206, Praha 8, Czech Republic
tel +42-(2)-8551040 ext 776, E-Mail: LUKES(or Postmaster)@Menza.MFF.CUNI.CZ
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:10:30 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Juraj Panko
Subject: Re: RFC822 - postnaster (was Re:Word)
In-Reply-To: <18FDB85B14@port.troja.mff.cuni.cz> from "Dan Lukes" at Dec 19,
95 11:53:03 am
Dobry den !
According to Dan Lukes.
> Juraj Panko psal:
> > U zastupcov prislusnej firmy (ako vsetok komercny SW :-) V kosiciach je to
> > napriklad lynx (skuste postu na ?????@lynx.sk (neviem kto to tam ma na
> > starosti)
> Je jiste "nosenim informaci do knihovny" kdyz pripomenu teto velevazene
> spolecnosti, ze dle normy (RRFC822) na kazde domene na kterou se adresuje
> posta je povinna existence uzivatele POSTMASTER. A u toho by se asi dalo
> zjistit, kdo to tam ma na starosti ...
ano to som Ticho predpokladal, ale neuviedol, ospravedlnujem sa. Moja info,
ze neviem, kto ma v lynx-e na starosti antiviry bola iba o tom, ze to
skutocne neviem.
Na druhej strane, ono to aj s tym postmastrom moze byt vselijake.
Jeden taky list som nedavno poslal a vratilo sa mi toto:
.. following errors occurred during message delivery processing:
: ...\
<<- RCPT To:
->> 550 Permanent error: Error writing recipient to DAS
Hmm a teraz budte frajeri :-(
--
*******************
Juraj Panko
panko@ccsun.tuke.sk
*******************
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:31:09 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Re: FIDO NET
> DD wrote:
>
> > No, jako fidonetista mam k FIGA nekolik vyhrad - 1) nechapu proc na ni
> > nekdo musel psat specielni software [vecne zlobici] kdyz staci vzit
>
> Nejsem si jist, jestli uz tehdy GIGO existoval, mozna ano, ale hlavni
> duvod vzniku softwaru pro FIGu a potazmo FIGY same byla rocnikova ci
Ale existoval. A take k nemu lze mit spoustu vyhrad. Predevsim, dost
spatne se shanel, sam jsem GIGO pred lety hledal, ale vchny odkazy,
ktere jsem dostal byly pouze na modem. Ted se to snad uz zlepsilo.
Za dalsi, nejsem si jist, jestli GIGO zvlada i provoz kdyz ma prime
propojeni na I_net - nobo zda potrebuje modemovat pres UUCP.
A konecne, zcela jiste neumi MIME a cestinu. To je take jeden z
duvodu, proc jsem zacal psat svou vlastni gate. Moje PmFido bylo sice
zamyslene jen pro lokalni provoz aby bylo mozno pouzivat Pegasus Mail
i pro postu ze site FIDO (a aby FIDO konference mohly byt na LANu
nejak rozumne dostupne), postupne se dodavanim dalsich funkci dostalo
do stavu, kdy je schopno udelat plnohodnotnou gate, vcetne
konferenci. A to i s cestinou nebo jinou narodni abecedou dle
libosti, vcetne attachnutych souboru a transparentniho prenosu MIME.
> > 2) FIGA se vzdy ohanela tim, ze vlastne dela neco co nesmi
> ...
> > Rozhodnu-li se, od pondeli muze na mail.codalan.cz jet nova Fidonet
> > gateway [problem je ze se mi o ni nechce starat] a nebude
>
> To si klidne udelej, Coda si jiste pripojeni na Internet plati sama a
To je prave nejvetsi problem. Nebyt techto problemu, tak u nas uz
davno je tato gate v plnem provozu.....
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:35:12 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Re: RFC822 - postnaster (was Re:Word)
> Na druhej strane, ono to aj s tym postmastrom moze byt vselijake.
> Jeden taky list som nedavno poslal a vratilo sa mi toto:
>
> .. following errors occurred during message delivery processing:
>
> : ...\
> <<- RCPT To:
> ->> 550 Permanent error: Error writing recipient to DAS
>
Jojo, lidova tvorivost. Ja su king a kdo je vic... Uz jsem se s tim
setkal i na jedne z nasich univerzit.
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 06:25:55 -0800
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vaclav Hala
Subject: Export z PMAILU
Vazeni uzivatele internetu,
mam dotaz ohledne moznosti _davkoveho_ exportu mailu z PMAILU do ASCII
souboru. Pro lepsi pochopeni asi takto :
soubor reprezentujici jeden folder mailu -> x souboru ASCII, kazdy s
jednim mailem. (Duvodem je potreba nacpat jednotlive dosle maily z listu
do fulltextu.).
Predem dekuji za jakoukoliv radu.
Vaclav Hala
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 07:02:59 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jaromir Krepelka
Organization: Palacky Univ. Department of Optics
Subject: Problem s CD ROM
Premistil jsem kartu Sound Galaxy Pro 16 s pripojenym CD ROM
Mitsumi FX001D ze stare 486, kde fungovaly, na nove Pentium 100,
kde funguje pouze cteni CD zvuku, nikoliv datovych souboru,
prestoze jsem vyzkousel ruzne kombinace nastaveni. Muzete
mi prosim nekdo poradit, v cem zavada pravdepodobne spociva?
Diky
Jaromir Krepelka
krepelka@risc.upol.cz
http://risc.upol.cz/~krepelka/welcome.html
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:30:42 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Re: Export z PMAILU
> mam dotaz ohledne moznosti _davkoveho_ exportu mailu z PMAILU do ASCII
> souboru. Pro lepsi pochopeni asi takto :
> soubor reprezentujici jeden folder mailu -> x souboru ASCII, kazdy s
> jednim mailem. (Duvodem je potreba nacpat jednotlive dosle maily z listu
> do fulltextu.).
> Predem dekuji za jakoukoliv radu.
J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
podporou supportu. To by m=EClo tu v=FDhodu, =BEe v manu=E1lech je pops=E1=
n
form=E1t folder=F9.
2. T=F8eba v=E1s to neuspokoj=ED d=E1vkovost=ED, ale.... Ozna=E8il bych v=B9=
echny
dopisy ve slo=BEce a poslal je Jin=E9mu (Forward). No a p=F8i p=F8=EDjmu u=
=BE je
to jednoduch=E9 - co dopis, to fajl. Pokud v tom nen=ED MIME, tak je to
vlastn=EC plain ASCII. P=F8=EDpadn=EC bych definoval n=ECjak=E9 t=F8=EDd=ED=
c=ED pravidlo,
kter=E9 by na to spou=B9t=EClo n=ECjak=FD program.
>
> Vaclav Hala
>
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:32:12 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: NW 4.1 >255 lidi
Potreboval bych odzkouset nejaky programek na NW kde se conn.
numbers pohybuji nad 255. Pomuze nekdo?
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 12:32:57 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ales Prell
Subject: FTP a adresre
Vazeni pratele,
nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
Win), ktery by um=ECl jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru -
je-li to vubec principialne mozne? Pokud ano, tak kde ho stahnout.
Diky predem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Ales PRELL +=20
+ Institute of Microbiology tel: +42 2 4752282 + =20
+ CAS, Praha fax: +42 2 4752244 +
+ Czech Republic E-mail: prell@biomed.cas.cz +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 13:27:24 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Plsek
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
In-Reply-To: <9512211132.AA13706@sun1.biomed.cas.cz> from "Ales Prell" at Dec
21, 95 12:32:57 pm
Pokud vim, neni mozne prenaset adresare, ani podadresare. FTP dovede
prenaset pouze 1 soubor (prikazem "get" nebo "put"), eventualne vice
souboru (prikazem "mget" a "mput").
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 13:37:28 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Vodicka
Organization: VSZ Brno
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
> nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
> Win), ktery by umil jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru -
Soubor se jmenuje ws_ftp32.zip, jde o 32-bitovou aplikaci, kterou
provozuji pod NT (predpokladam, ze pod W95 by jela, nevim ale jak by
to jela s W 3.1X a win32s).
Jeho 16-bitova verze je v souboru ws_ftp16.zip, ale nevim, zda
umi i podadresare. Vtip je v tom, ze asi nemam nejnovejsi 16-bitovou verzi
nebot ta poadr. stahovat neumi. (Ale je mozne, ze novejsi verze by to mit
mohla)
Kde to je? Presne si nepamatuji, ale kazde zrcadlo CICA serveru by to
mohlo mit.
Petr Vodicka
vodicka@vszbr.cz
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:59:08 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: Technical University of Brno, Czech Republic
Subject: Windows NT Security Issues
Windows NT Security Issues
These issues are listed in no specific order. Some of these are general
security issues for all computers, some
are unique to Windows NT. This list is not all inclusive. The emphasis is on
more obscure issues, since the
general topic of computer security is already well addressed by many books.
Suggestions for additions to this
list are welcome.
The length of this list does not indicate that NT is not secure. From both the
official ("is Windows NT C2
certified yet?") and practical points of view, NT is more secure than most
brands of Unix. (and yes, as of Sept
1995, NT is officially C2 certified in certain configurations).
vice najdete na http://www.somar.cz/security.htm
nebo po omezenou dobu ( dokud se nedoctu konce0 na
http://www.vszbr.cz/~snajdr/security.htm
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:37:07 GMT+60
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "Tomas Cermak, K175 D 2109 l 4942"
Organization: Civil Engineering Faculty CVUT
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
> ... eventualne vice
> souboru (prikazem "mget" a "mput").
>
Taky jsem s tim trochu bojoval. Prikaz "mget *" umi stahnout i
podadresare za predpokladu, ze stejna struktura adresaru existuje i
na cilovem disku (zde muze byt uvaha o jmenech souboru v dosu unixu a
o tom, jestli takovou strukturu lze vytvorit).
Musim ale podotknout ze mi to nechodilo vzdy a vsude a ze nevim
proc. Vi to nekdo?
Tomas Cermak
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:01:32 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Novotny
Subject: Cestina ???
In-Reply-To: <69527A804D3@dean.fee.vutbr.cz> from "Jiri Kuchta" at Dec 21,
95 11:30:42 am
Vazeni pratele,
mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne
nutne pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ?
Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky, ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat
ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni postu je
to (zatim) prepych.
Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
S pozdravem
J. Novotny
> J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
>
> 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
> podporou supportu. To by m=EClo tu v=FDhodu, =BEe v manu=E1lech je pops=E1=
> n
> form=E1t folder=F9.
>
> 2. T=F8eba v=E1s to neuspokoj=ED d=E1vkovost=ED, ale.... Ozna=E8il bych v=B9=
atd ....
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:37:46 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
> > nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
> > Win), ktery by umil jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru -
>
> Soubor se jmenuje ws_ftp32.zip, jde o 32-bitovou aplikaci, kterou
> provozuji pod NT (predpokladam, ze pod W95 by jela, nevim ale jak by
> to jela s W 3.1X a win32s).
Tusim,ze je to stejny program,ktery jsem pouzival .
presto,ze byl for NT - bezel nejenom pod Win 3.1 (+win32s),ale
i kupodivu pod OS/2. ;-)
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:39:29 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Snajdr
Organization: VSZ BRNO
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
> Win), ktery by umil jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru -
> je-li to vubec principialne mozne? Pokud ano, tak kde ho stahnout.
nektere FTP klienty umi i podadresare - vyzaduji vsak stejnou
strukturu adresaru na locale jako na ftp serveru ( a do nich to pak
kopiruji)
S pozdravem
Petr Snajdr
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:48:00 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ivan Vavra
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
In-Reply-To: <9512211132.AA13706@sun1.biomed.cas.cz>
On Thu, 21 Dec 1995, Ales Prell wrote:
>=20
> nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
> Win), ktery by um=ECl jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru=
-
=09=09
=09Vazeny kolego, kolegove,
dovolil jsem si posilat tento dopis vsem, aby po pripade nekdo dotahl=20
tuto, myslim "frequently asked" zalezitost do zdarneho konce.
Ja jsem tuto zalezitost resil makrem, ktere vetsina FTP umoznuje vytvorit.
Predkladam pouze "nastin", protoze jsem to pouzil pouze jednorazove a mak.=
=20
neni "dopilovano", pro toho, kdo by mel chut a cas to zkusit. Prip. msg=20
bych uvital.
Nastin:
ftp>prompt ' pokud vypise off nebude vyzadovat potvrzovani pri mget *=20
' jinak jeste jednou prompt
ftp>macdef prenos 'tvoreni makra
binary
hash
(zde by mela byt cast ktera precte podadr. aktualniho adr. na serveru a=20
vytvori tyto adresare na klientu, ja jsem to resil tak ze jsem si tyto=20
podadr. zjistil a utvotil je u "sebe". Napr.: podadr. jsou a1 a2 a3 ...)
cd a1
lcd a1 'local cd (u mne) nebo !cd a1
mget *
cdup 'nebo cd ..
!cd .. ' u mne zpet
cd a2
lcd a2
mget * ...
misto a1 a2 by bylo chtelo pouzit promenne, ktera by se naplnovala pri=20
cteni podadresare, jestli to jde jednoduse, nebo jak to jde, k tomu uz=20
jsem se nedostal.=20
Ukonceni makra: prazdna linka
Volani makra: $prenos [argumety]
argumentem by mohlo byt i jmeno knihovny napr. misto a1 v makru: $a
a pak volat makro: $prenos a1
=09 $prenos a2 ...
=20
Pred temito pokusy je dobre si zjistit '?', zda "nase" FTP, nebo FTP=20
stroje na, kterem jsme pripojeni (telnet) uvedene prikazy umi.
Timto "poloautomatickym" makrem jsem prenesl knihovny distribuce Linuxu.=20
Dekuji za precteni a pripadnou zpravu.
=09=09=09=09Ivan Vavra FzU vavra@fzu.cz=09=09=09=09
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:58:07 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "PhDr. Brozek Ivo"
Organization: University of Purkyne, Usti n/L, CR
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
> Datum odeslani: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:01:32 +0100
> Odpoved na: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
> Od: Jiri Novotny
> Vec: Cestina ???
> Komu: Multiple recipients of list CSINFO-L
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne
> nutne pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ?
> Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky, ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat
> ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni postu je
> to (zatim) prepych.
> Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
>
>
> S pozdravem
> J. Novotny
> > J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
> >
> > 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
> atd ....
Vazeni kolegove,
reakce J. Novotneho se zrejme tyka dopisu J. Kuchty. I kdyz mam
obycejny Pegassus Mail a nic jsem si na svem pocitaci nenastavil
(mozna, ze neco nastavil spravce nasi univerzitni site), dopis J.
Kuchty se mi zobrazil krasne s diakritikou, a ne tedy tak jako
kolegovi Novotnemu.
Asi to tedy jde a uz by to nemusel byt prepych!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Proc by se nemohlo dohodnout (pro zacatek aspon v teto
konferenci) posilani dopisu s diakritikou ?
S pozdravem
Ivo Brozek
ustredni knihovna PF UJEP Usti n. L.
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:03:09 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
> mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne
> nutne pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ?
Sorry, to je sila zvyku. Pro FIDO pouzivam take Pegasus Mail a tak mi
to ani neprijde....
> Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky, ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat
> ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni postu je
> to (zatim) prepych.
Nesouhlas, ale to nic....
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:12:20 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:58:07 MET you wrote:
> Proc by se nemohlo dohodnout (pro zacatek aspon v teto
>konferenci) posilani dopisu s diakritikou ?
Asi proto, ze pocet lidi, kteri se mohou pripojit je znacny a kazdy z
nich se muze pripojovat z jineho prostredi, kde zrovna neco jako MIME
(ktere doposud je silne opomijenym standardem ze strany kohokoliv kdo
nema potrebu po diakritice) neni bezne dostupne....
Ja cesky psat zatim nebudu a pokud nekdo bude, tak si to holt
neprectu....
Daniel
* Daniel Docekal, Computer Data a.s., Trebohosticka 2283
* 100 00 Praha 10, Tel. 42-2-7078325, Fax. 42-2-703875
* e-mail, daniel@mail.codalan.cz, or codalan@login.cz
* http://www.codalan.cz, ftp://www.codalan.cz
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 16:36:24 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Novotny
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
In-Reply-To: <97DAFD6510@pf.ujep.cz> from "PhDr. Brozek Ivo" at Dec 21,
95 03:58:07 pm
> > Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
> >
> >
> > S pozdravem
> > J. Novotny
> > > J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
> > >
> > > 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
> > atd ....
>
> Vazeni kolegove,
> reakce J. Novotneho se zrejme tyka dopisu J. Kuchty. I kdyz mam
> obycejny Pegassus Mail a nic jsem si na svem pocitaci nenastavil
> (mozna, ze neco nastavil spravce nasi univerzitni site), dopis J.
> Kuchty se mi zobrazil krasne s diakritikou, a ne tedy tak jako
> kolegovi Novotnemu.
> Asi to tedy jde a uz by to nemusel byt prepych!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Samozrejme to jde, ale ne vsichni pouzivaji Pegasus Mail, a v mnoha
jinych prostredich nastaveni cestiny vyzaduje vice prace. No a ne
vsichni na to maji dost casu. Navic asi existuje i nezanedbatelna
mnozina uzivatelu, kteru pouzivaji (a s uspechem) ruzne terminaly,
(VT100 ...), ktere cestinu neumi vubec. Samozrejme se daji znaky
s diakritikou prekonvertovat ale ... ne vsichni na to maji cas.
Konvertovani se da i zautomatizovat ... ale atd.
Tim proboha nechci rict, ze by se nemela cestina pouzivat, ale jen
to, ze neni nutne vzdy.
S pozdravem
P.S. Snad z toho nebude flame war pred vanocemi :-).
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:17:17 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Vladimir Vrabec
Subject: Seminar na Dnech otevrenych dveri do Internetu
X-To: net@cs.felk.cvut.cz, SEMINAR@UTIA.CAS.CZ
X-cc: smajlik@cs.felk.cvut.cz, STR-SKOL@EARN.CVUT.CZ
Vazeni,
pred nedavnem byly ohlaseny dalsi Dny otevrenych dveri do Internetu
(napr.: gopher://omicron.felk.cvut.cz:70/00/training/czech/nove-dny).
Soucasti teto akce bude jako u predchozich Dnu i seminar. Stav predbeznych
prihlasek sdeleni a referatu bude udrzovan v aktualnim podobe na URL
gopher://omicron.felk.cvut.cz:70/00/training/czech/dny-seminar
Soucasny stav je:
Prezentacni vystoupeni:
1. LUCO
2. DATAC
3. INFIMA
Tematicka vystoupeni:
vseobecna:
1. Borivoj Brdicka : Teorie a praxe zapojovani skol do mezinarodnich
projektu zalozenych na Internetu
2. Pavel Slavik: Projekt WISE/E
WWW:
1. Jan Schmidt: Cestina na WWW
3. Petr Hejda, Lukas Miksicek: Tvorba HTML stranek
5. Martin Brachtl: WWW a ochrana dat
6. Jiri Zara: VRML (Virtual Reality Modeling Language)
Dalsi prihlasky jsou vitany.
S pozdravem a pranim prijemnych vanoc
Vladimir Vrabec
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 14:45:18 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jan Ilavsky
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
zip
>Vazeni kolegove,
> reakce J. Novotneho se zrejme tyka dopisu J. Kuchty. I kdyz mam
>obycejny Pegassus Mail a nic jsem si na svem pocitaci nenastavil
>(mozna, ze neco nastavil spravce nasi univerzitni site), dopis J.
>Kuchty se mi zobrazil krasne s diakritikou, a ne tedy tak jako
>kolegovi Novotnemu.
> Asi to tedy jde a uz by to nemusel byt prepych!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Proc by se nemohlo dohodnout (pro zacatek aspon v teto
>konferenci) posilani dopisu s diakritikou ?
>
> S pozdravem
> Ivo Brozek
> ustredni knihovna PF UJEP Usti n. L.
>
Zasadne nesouhlasim. Ti z nas, kteri jsou v zahranici nemaji moznost
(alespon ja na svem Mackovi v cemsi co se nazyva Versaterm tuhle moznost
nemam) cokoliv nastavit tak, aby se ten blabol
> J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
>
> 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
> podporou supportu. To by m=EClo tu v=FDhodu, =BEe v manu=E1lech je pops=E1=
> n
> form=E1t folder=F9.
>
> 2. T=F8eba v=E1s to neuspokoj=ED d=E1vkovost=ED, ale.... Ozna=E8il bych v=B9=
dal vubec precist. Pouzivejte prosim ASCII, je to jedinne co zajisti
celosvetovou citelnost. A da se to...
Honza
*******************************************************************************
JAN ILAVSKY JAN.ILAVSKY@NIST.GOV
NIST PHONE: 301-975-4435
Bldg. 223, Rm. A 163 FAX: 301-990-8729
Gaithersburg, MD 20899, USA
*******************************************************************************
This e-mail may not represent opinions of NIST and US government.
Due to govermental shutdown in the US we are out of work and NIST is shut down.
I suggest having Merry Christmas,
Happy New Year
and contacting me again when we are ALLOWED to work...
Thank you....
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 21:37:17 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Ivan Janda
Organization: Institute of Microbiology, Prague
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On 21 Dec 95 at 14:45, Jan Ilavsky wrote:
> Zasadne nesouhlasim. Ti z nas, kteri jsou v zahranici nemaji moznost
> (alespon ja na svem Mackovi v cemsi co se nazyva Versaterm tuhle
> moznost nemam) cokoliv nastavit tak, aby se ten blabol
>
> > J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
... (zkraceno) ...
> > 2. T=F8eba v=E1s to neuspokoj=ED d=E1vkovost=ED, ale.... Ozna=E8il
> > bych v=B9=
>
> dal vubec precist.
Clovek nemusi byt ani v Americe, aby obdrzel tutez "zpravu" v podobe:
> vlastn plain ASCII. P <=padn bych definoval n jak, t <=d<=c<= pravidlo,
> kter, by na to spou t lo n jak program.
Takhle to vidi muj Pegasus for Windows V2.01 v Praze 4, na ktereho si
jinak vubec nestezuji. Ackoli si vazim cestiny (a nebo snad prave
proto), davam zasadne prednost e-mailovani bez diakritiky.
====================================================
Dr. Ivan Janda
Institute of Microbiology, Czech Academy of Sciences
Videnska 1083
CZ-142 20 Prague 4
Czech Republic
Phone: (+42 2) 475 25 12, Fax: (+42 2) 472 22 57
Internet: janda@biomed.cas.cz
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 08:08:59 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Martin Kopka
Organization: CS Dept., Palacky University
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
> nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS nebo
> Win), ktery by umil jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresaru -
> je-li to vubec principialne mozne? Pokud ano, tak kde ho stahnout.
>
Dobry den,
reseni je mozne najit i na strane FTP Serveru. Nektere umi zpracovat
prikaz "get adresar.tar" pripadne "get adresar.tar.gz" napsany v
rodicovskem adresari pozadovaneho adresare.
Pak Vam prijde tar popripade tar.gz soubor (komprimovany) a jedina
starost je mit prislusny komprimovaci program.
Zdravi M.Kopka
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:42:01 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Matej Cepl
Subject: Cestina??? Prosim, ne!
Nema kazdy Pegasus Mail (i kdyz by ho mozna chtel), ale jsou zde i
taci (jako ja a se mnou cela nase fakulta), kteri maji DEC
Pathworks (verze 4) na ULTRIXu a ani od jednoho z tech dvou
naprosto neocekavam (spravne), ze by umeli MIME. Protoze pry
mailserver na tom ULTRIXu neni POP3 compliant, nemam sanci na
Pegasus ani zadny jiny rozumny Windowsi mail a musim se takhle
pinozit na DOSi potvore, ktera ani neumi poradne editovat. Prosim,
s ohledem na nas nestastniky, vydrzte u cestiny (bez hacku).
Dekuji
Krasne Vanoce vsem
Matej Cepl
P.S.: Kdyby nahodou nekdo vedel, jak na ULTRIX nejaky ten POP3
mailserver dostat a zajistit, aby to dokazalo behat na dvou
platformach (jinak bychom museli zdejsi lidi preucovat na neco
jineho a tom bychom z toho asi vsichni zahynuli).
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 10:38:10 +0000
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ondrej Leseticky
Subject: ftpd pro NW 4.1
Vazeni kolegove,
nezna nekdo z vas URL, kde stahnout FTPD pro NW 4.1 ?
Me hledani bylo zatim neuspesne.
Predem dekuji
Ondrej Leseticky
======================================================================
Ondrej Leseticky University of South Bohemia
leset-on@beta.jh.jcu.cz Management Faculty
leset-on@sigma.jh.jcu.cz Dept. of Computer Science
+42 331 361345, 361342 Jindrichuv Hradec, Czech Rep.
======================================================================
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:38:35 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Miroslav Lycka
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
* > Vazeni pratele,
* >
* > mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne
* > nutne pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ?
* > Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky, ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat
* > ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni postu je
* > to (zatim) prepych.
* > Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
* >
* >
* > S pozdravem
* > J. Novotny
* > > J=E1 bych dal n=E1sleduj=EDc=ED rady:
* > >
* > > 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
* > atd ....
*
* Vazeni kolegove,
* reakce J. Novotneho se zrejme tyka dopisu J. Kuchty. I kdyz mam
* obycejny Pegassus Mail a nic jsem si na svem pocitaci nenastavil
* (mozna, ze neco nastavil spravce nasi univerzitni site), dopis J.
* Kuchty se mi zobrazil krasne s diakritikou, a ne tedy tak jako
* kolegovi Novotnemu.
* Asi to tedy jde a uz by to nemusel byt prepych!
* ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
* Proc by se nemohlo dohodnout (pro zacatek aspon v teto
* konferenci) posilani dopisu s diakritikou ?
Protoze jsou i taci konzervativci, ucastnici teto konference, kteri pro
vyrizovani posty pouzivaji standardni UNIXOvy mail ve standardnim textovem
nepocestenem UNIXovem prostredi, mezi nez rovnez patrim. Tim se pripojuji
k prosbe kolegy Novotneho, jehoz konzervatismus chapu a sdilim.
Zdravi
Miroslav Lycka
____________________________________________________________________________
| Miroslav Ly'c~ka | e-mail: lycka@isibrno.cz |
| Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic | mik@isibrno.cz |
| Institute of Scientific Instruments | |
| Kralovopolska 147 | tel: +42-5-41321246, ext. 261 |
| CZ-612 64 Brno, Czechlands | fax: +42-5-746664 or 41211168 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 11:19:42 MET-1
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kuchta
Organization: Technical University of Brno
Subject: Re: ftpd pro NW 4.1
> nezna nekdo z vas URL, kde stahnout FTPD pro NW 4.1 ?
> Me hledani bylo zatim neuspesne.
Nam chodi normalni FTPD ktery jsme pouzivali i na 3.11
----
|Ing. Jiri Kuchta |
|Technical University of Brno |
|Faculty of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science |
|Department of Computer Science and Engineering |
|Bozetechova 2; CZ-61266 Brno |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|tel: +42-5-7275-222 E-mail: kuchta@fee.vutbr.cz |
| +42-5-43167-322 |
|fax: +42-5-41211141 Fido: 2:421/13.7 |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:03:54 METDST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "Belinger Tomas, Ing.,
+42-35-335474"
Organization: Chemopetrol Litvinov
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
Dobry den,
vidim celou tuto zalezitost jako problem zvazeni argumentu - ceho
dosahnene a za jakou cenu.
Myslim si, ze by vysledny efekt nestal za potize, ktere s sebou tato
zmena nese. Konec koncu u konkretni skupiny uzivatelu jde jen o vec
dohody a pokud tomu jejich mailery vyhovuji, nic jim nebrani cestinu
pouzivat.
Hezke Vanocni svatky
Ing. Tomas Belinger
Network supervisor
Dept. Computer Centre
Chemopetrol a.s.
436 70 Litvinov
Czech Republic
Tel. +42-35-335474
Fax: +42-35-334784
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:17:14 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
Ales Prell v poslednim dopise z 21 Dec 95 pise:
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> nevite prosim nekdo o FTP klientu (share- nebo freeware, DOS neb=
o
> Win), ktery by um=ECl jednoduse prenaset cele adresare vcetne subadresar=
u -
> je-li to vubec principialne mozne? Pokud ano, tak kde ho stahnout.
>
> Diky predem
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + Ales PRELL +
Pro MS Windows pouzivam Ws_ftp (sockety) - dobry (presneji skvely)
programek.
Martin Kamin
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:17:15 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Comments: Authenticated sender is
From: Martin Kamin
Organization: Computer Press, spol s r. o.
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
Jiri Novotny v poslednim dopise z 21 Dec 95 pise:
> Vazeni pratele,
>
> mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne
> nutne pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ?
> Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky, ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat
> ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni postu je
> to (zatim) prepych.
> Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
>
>
> S pozdravem
> J. Novotny
> > J=3DE1 bych dal n=3DE1sleduj=3DEDc=3DED rady:
> >
> > 1. zakoupit manu=3DE1ly, st=3DE1t se tak registrovan=3DFDm u=3DBEivate=
lem s plnou
> > podporou supportu. To by m=3DEClo tu v=3DFDhodu, =3DBEe v manu=3DE1lec=
h je pops=3DE1=3D
> > n
> > form=3DE1t folder=3DF9.
> >
> > 2. T=3DF8eba v=3DE1s to neuspokoj=3DED d=3DE1vkovost=3DED, ale.... Ozn=
a=3DE8il bych v=3DB9=3D
Pokud bychom radi vyuzili Internet pro LIDI (a proto tady je) tak
zasadne rikam ANO! Myslite si, je tak nutne, aby klicek v zapalovani
do auta byl u mista ridice? Neberte to nikdo osobne, ale lidi, kteri
chteji Sit v zadnem pripade nema co zajimat, proc tam nejde
posta v cestine - oni jsou UZIVATELE a nikdo z nas jim to nevysvetli
proc tam cestina nefunguje spravne. V podstate je to ani nema
zajimat - transportni system je od toho, aby delal veci, ktere se po
nem pozaduji...
Ani se jim moc nedivim, predpokladaji, ze zapalovani bude u ridice -
tak proc kdyz muzu po SIti posilat kdovi co, by se nemohly posilat
ceske dopisy? Tech UZIVATELU je mnohem vice nez nas, kteri jsme
trochu IN.
Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =C8E=8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
Zdravim vsechny diskutatory teto konference a preji hodne stesti
Martin Kamin
----------------------------------------------------------
Ing. Martin Kamin
Redakce casopisu Connect!
Computer Press, spol. s r. o.
Haasova 27, Brno, 616 00
tel. (05) 4121 8350, 4124 0093-4
fax (05) 4124 0845
kamin@cpress.anet.cz
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:54:49 MET-2DST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Vodicka
Organization: VSZ Brno
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
> Ani se jim moc nedivim, predpokladaji, ze zapalovani bude u ridice -
> tak proc kdyz muzu po SIti posilat kdovi co, by se nemohly posilat
> ceske dopisy? Tech UZIVATELU je mnohem vice nez nas, kteri jsme
> trochu IN.
>
> Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme E I nebo ne? :-)))))
Zde se jedna o klasicky problem 'lenosti'. Vyresit jde vse, ale zcela
chapu spravce nejakych starych potvor, ktere proste cesky psat neprinutite.
A delat na to nejaky odcestovatko - proc, kdyz ti lide veri, ze az prijde
novy system (za par mesicu snad prijde a PAK panove taktika: Vzdyt
ja jako spravce muzu rici: 'Jo holt je to stara zgarba, tak co chcete!.
Az sem date novy system, tak to bude cesky').
Tak to alespon vidim ja. Navic administratori systemu maji dost prace
udrzovat system v chodu a cestina na postu je casto na konci zajmu
(vzdyt to jede) a pak - kdo chce moci mermo posilat ceske zpravy, at
to hodi jako binarni attachment. A je to!
Petr Vodicka
vodicka@vszbr.cz
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:38:23 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Ales Prell
Subject: Re: FTP a adresre
Dekuji Vsem, kteri meli snahu mi poradit. Jako nejjednodussi reseni
se ukazalo WS_FTP32 ve versi 95-11-25, ktere beha i pod Win 3.1 + Win32s a
adresarove stromy bez problemu prenasi mezi ruznymi systemy (zkousel jsem
klient Windows na PC a server Unix (SUN)). Dela to nejspis jako makro, jak
ostatne kdosi radil, ktere uz nekdo napsal a je mani.
Stastne Vanoce Vsem
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Ales PRELL +
+ Institute of Microbiology tel: +42 2 4752282 +
+ CAS, Praha fax: +42 2 4752244 +
+ Czech Republic E-mail: prell@biomed.cas.cz +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:15:31 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stepan Bojar
Subject: Re: Cestina??? Prosim, ne!
In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 22 Dec 1995 09:42:01 +0000 from
Dobry den,
myslim, ze jsou i taci, kteri pouzivaji 3270. Asi z lenosti a setrvacnosti
radeji nez treba Eudoru. Pokud mate nekdo 3270 pro Maca, ktera by delala MIME,
tak bych treba hajil cestinu v plne podobe. Ale protoze nic takoveho nemam,
pisu jako krovak a jsem (relativne) spokojen.
Stepan Bojar, UVT UK
Jo, a jeste jednu vec:
PF 96
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:17:07 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
>Protoze jsou i taci konzervativci, ucastnici teto konference, kteri pro
>vyrizovani posty pouzivaji standardni UNIXOvy mail ve standardnim textovem
>nepocestenem UNIXovem prostredi, mezi nez rovnez patrim. Tim se pripojuji
>k prosbe kolegy Novotneho, jehoz konzervatismus chapu a sdilim.
Jsou i takovi konzervativci, kteri maji Windows s EE fonty, ale nechteji
prechazet na Pegasus Mail protoze si uz zvykli na komercni Eudoru. Mezi ne
patrim ja.
Jiri Kvarda Czech Technical University
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Computer Center, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Prague, Czech Republic
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:16:23 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Miroslav Lycka
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
* Zde se jedna o klasicky problem 'lenosti'. Vyresit jde vse, ale zcela
* chapu spravce nejakych starych potvor, ktere proste cesky psat neprinutite.
* A delat na to nejaky odcestovatko - proc, kdyz ti lide veri, ze az prijde
* novy system (za par mesicu snad prijde a PAK panove taktika: Vzdyt
* ja jako spravce muzu rici: 'Jo holt je to stara zgarba, tak co chcete!.
* Az sem date novy system, tak to bude cesky').
Myslim, ze tady spravcum trochu krivdite. Cely problem s nabodenicky se
tahne od toho, ze holt veskery pouzivany HW i SW na svete ma puvod
v zemich, kde si s tim problemy delat nemuseli, a ze se tim padem
ta pismenka navic doplacavaji dodatecne, ruznymi zpusoby a tudiz ne-
jednotne. Vzdyt jen co ruznych kodovani cestiny se pouziva!
Ano, pro e-mail existuje definice standardu v MIME kodovani, jenze aby
se stal standardem opravdovym, musel by byt automatickou soucasti
distribuce pouzivanych systemu, a to dosud neni.
Proto se znovu primlouvam za to, aby se hlavne v konferencich se sirokym
plenem v soucasnosti jeste pouzivala cestina misto c~es~tiny.
Miroslav Lycka
____________________________________________________________________________
| Miroslav Ly'c~ka | e-mail: lycka@isibrno.cz |
| Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic | mik@isibrno.cz |
| Institute of Scientific Instruments | |
| Kra'lovopolska' 147 | tel: +42-5-41321246, ext. 261 |
| CZ-612 64 Brno, Czechlands | fax: +42-5-746664 or 41211168 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:55:02 -0500
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: "Vagoun, Mr Voyta"
Subject: Cestina, hacky, carky, donekonecna?
Rekl jsem si: "jeste jeden prispevek v teto diskuzi a budu se muset
pripojit". I stalo se. Vzdyt je to tak jednoduche. Chci-li, aby me
sdeleni nekdo se zajmem cetl, snazim se sve sdeleni sdelit v co
nejvhodnejsi forme. Je-li mi jedno, zda si ho nekdo bude moci precist
nebo ne, pak volim zpusob, ktery je nejvyhodnejsi pro mne.
Mam velmi bohatou komunikaci s cs. partnery. Samozrejme se stalo, ze
diky neznalosti mi nekteri poslali pro mne necitelny, zakodovany text.
Po mem upozorneni se omluvili a nadale se mnou komunikuji tak, abych si
jejich sdeleni mohl snadno precist, tzn cesky, bez carek a hacku.
Myslim, ze se to nazyva "professional courtesy", prelozeno snad jako
"profesionalni slusnost".
Vojta Vagoun
West Virginia
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:10:47 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: The Radio Prague Staff of Highly Skilled Experts
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: several messages about Netscape and charsets
Another weekend, another followup...
On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, (ISO-8859-2) krem=BEsk=E1 HO=D8=C8ICE wrote:
> > > (But wouldn't these tags confuse
> > > browsers, which use non-ISO-Latin2 fonts, like Netscape for MS-Window=
s?
>=20
> [...M]y opinion is that Netscape should recognize
> this encoding and be able to translate from this to CP1250
I thought I would pass along part of the following message, which
was sent to the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) SMTP discussion
group recently, as it discusses HTTP charsets, even though the focus of
the message was slightly different...
From: david_goldsmith@taligent.com (David Goldsmith)
Newsgroups: info.ietf.smtp
Subject: Re: Character set registration
Date: 19 Dec 95 04:10:35 GMT
The following sections from the latest (version of September 5, 1995)
HTTP 1.0 spec seem to be relevant:
-----------------------------------------
[*snip*]
HTTP also redefines the default character set for text media in an entity
body. If a
textual media type defines a charset parameter with a registered default
value of
"US-ASCII", HTTP changes the default to be "ISO-8859-1". Since the
ISO-8859-1 [18]
character set is a superset of US-ASCII [17], this has no effect upon the
interpretation
of entity bodies which only contain octets within the US-ASCII set (0 -
127). The
presence of a charset parameter value in a Content-Type header field
overrides the
default.
It is recommended that the character set of an entity body be labelled as
the lowest
common denominator of the character codes used within a document, with the
exception that no label is preferred over the labels US-ASCII or
ISO-8859-1.
---------------------------
and (from 3.4):
--------------------
HTTP character sets are identified by case-insensitive tokens. The
complete set of
tokens are defined by the IANA Character Set registry [15]. However,
because that
registry does not define a single, consistent token for each character
set, we define here
the preferred names for those character sets most likely to be used with
HTTP entities.
These character sets include those registered by RFC 1521 [5] -- the
US-ASCII [17] and
ISO-8859 [18] character sets -- and other names specifically recommended
for use
within MIME charset parameters.
charset =3D "US-ASCII"
| "ISO-8859-1" | "ISO-8859-2" | "ISO-8859-3"
| "ISO-8859-4" | "ISO-8859-5" | "ISO-8859-6"
| "ISO-8859-7" | "ISO-8859-8" | "ISO-8859-9"
| "ISO-2022-JP" | "ISO-2022-JP-2" | "ISO-2022-KR"
| "UNICODE-1-1" | "UNICODE-1-1-UTF-7" | "UNICODE-1-1-UTF-8"
| token
----------------------
In other words, HTTP specifically allows the use of multibyte character
sets which do not use the CRLF sequence, more specifically 16-bit Unicode
(unicode-1-1). It also recognizes that this differs from the behavior
specified by MIME.
David Goldsmith
Senior Scientist
Taligent, Inc.
10201 N. DeAnza Blvd.
Cupertino, CA 95014-2233
david_goldsmith@taligent.com
What this means is that Slovak and Czech documents should not be
served with a charset tagging other than ISO-8859-2, and if no charset
tagging is provided, the browser should assume it's ISO-8859-1.
This also means that effort should not be put into serving out HTTP
with a variety of different encodings, but instead this effort should
be focused on making the browser support ISO-8859-2 charsets even if the
display charset is something otherwise (such as Windows CP1250, DOS
CP852, or whatever a Mac would be using). So the Netscape2.0 version
should be doing the mapping from the ISO 8859-2 charset to the Windows
or Mac display instead of expecting the document to be supplied with
the unregistered X-MAC-CE charset, or the CP1250 charset which, from
the documentation, it seems not to recognize.
Now that I have made reference to this, can somebody point me to
some resources about Central European support for the Macintosh, such
as the font encoding, and sources for Mac fonts with ISO-8859-2
encoding, if such exist, for an application which does not perform
the translation to the internal display charset? I would appreciate it.
Diky,
Barry Bouwsma
vesel=E9 v=E1noce
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 23:28:37 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Stanislav Koci
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:17:15 +0100 you wrote:
>Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =C8E=8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
Coze jsme???
Stanislav Koci
HOBIT s.r.o. tel: +42 (2) 7821300
Nad Primaskou 35 fax: +42 (2) 7821968
Praha 10 e-mail bilbo@hobit.anet.cz
100 00 fido: 2:420/55
Czech Republic
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 17:28:48 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Matus Uhlar
Organization: Slovak Academic Network Kosice
Subject: Re: Cestina??? Prosim, ne!
Matej Cepl (Matej.Cepl%LF3.CUNI.CZ@earn.cvut.cz) wrote:
-> Nema kazdy Pegasus Mail (i kdyz by ho mozna chtel), ale jsou zde i
-> taci (jako ja a se mnou cela nase fakulta), kteri maji DEC
-> Pathworks (verze 4) na ULTRIXu a ani od jednoho z tech dvou
-> naprosto neocekavam (spravne), ze by umeli MIME. Protoze pry
-> mailserver na tom ULTRIXu neni POP3 compliant, nemam sanci na
-> Pegasus ani zadny jiny rozumny Windowsi mail a musim se takhle
-> pinozit na DOSi potvore, ktera ani neumi poradne editovat. Prosim,
-> s ohledem na nas nestastniky, vydrzte u cestiny (bez hacku).
Plne suhlasim, ja na Solarise 2 sice mam cesky/slovensky xterm, napriek tomu
som vsak za to aby sa vsetko pisalo, pokial mozno, bez narodnej podpory.
Je to sice pekne, ale nakoniec si musime uvedomit ze to NAOZAJ nie je
standard, a je celkom mozne ze niekde vam to server nie sice odmietne (ako
by to mohlo byt v pripade posielanie 8 bitovych znakov) ale aspon rozhadze
(ked nepochopi MIME hlavicku) a v tom pripade sa to nebude dat citat ani u
ludi ktori ten PEGAS alebo nieco ine maju.
-> P.S.: Kdyby nahodou nekdo vedel, jak na ULTRIX nejaky ten POP3
-> mailserver dostat a zajistit, aby to dokazalo behat na dvou
-> platformach (jinak bychom museli zdejsi lidi preucovat na neco
-> jineho a tom bychom z toho asi vsichni zahynuli).
--
Matus Uhlar at Regional node of SANET in Kosice, Slovakia
E-mail: Matus.Uhlar@tuke.sk NTALK: uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk
IRC: fantomas PGP: finger uhlar@ccnews.ke.sanet.sk | pgp
...I'd like to add something cool here, but I don't know what ;-)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 12:31:54 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: The Radio Prague Staff of Highly Skilled Experts
Organization: Technical University of Liberec
Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-2?Q?=C8e=B9tina=3F_Pros=EDm!!!?=
On 23 Dec 1995, Stanislav Koci wrote:
> >Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =3DC8E=3D8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
>
> Coze jsme???
:-)
(Excuse my English) What we have here are several problems. First,
while there is a standards-track specification for support of many
different languages (see the MIME RFCs) which should be a standard very
soon, not everybody supports MIME yet. It is estimated that more than
50% of e-mail users have MIME support through the Internet, but sadly, it
cannot be found everywhere. What I would hope is that the percentage of
users with MIME support in areas where a character set other than
US-ASCII is in wide use, would be much higher, such as closer to 90%. I
believe that in countries such as Germany, where the push to be able to
use the national characters is much stronger, the penetration of
MIME-aware mail clients is close to this 90% figure, or even higher. I
can see that here it is less, but it is not difficult to increase this.
MIME-aware mail and news readers are available for nearly every
platform. Often, MIME support can be added to existing programs that
users are familiar with, such as ELM, or Emacs RMAIL, through simple
patches or through the metamail program. Sometimes, to get MIME support,
a user will have to move to a different mailer, and not all users are
happy with that. The FAQ which is posted to comp.mail.mime and which
should be archived at an FTP site near you tells more about programs which
are MIME-aware. New programs which understand MIME are always being
released, so the number of MIME-aware users is always increasing.
Unfortunately, in CZ/SK, there is not a single standard for encoding
of national characters, even on the same platform. This has been solved
in most of western Europe by dropping support in mail for all the national
code pages, so that nearly every mail reader supports ISO 8859-1 on the
wire for sending and reading mail, translating to the local encoding.
It is suggested that MIME mail in CZ/SK make use of ISO-8859-2 for
widest interoperability. But since PCs and Windows and Macs use a
character encoding which is different from ISO-8859-2 (only Unix machines
are likely to have this as the native charset encoding), the mail program
must do the translation. Unfortunately, not all programs do this. For
example, I know that Eudora for the Mac can translate ISO-8859-1 to the
Mac charset, but it leaves ISO-8859-2 alone. And it seems that other
versions of programs, like Pegasus mail, also do not do the translation.
> >Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =3DC8E=3D8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
^^^
This message was first sent from Pegasus mail. In the copy I read from
a news spool, I do not see any MIME headers. But I know that it is not in
the ISO-8859-2 standard, first because I did not see the correct
characters on my display with the original message, and second, because I
know that a character which shows up with the QUOTED-PRINTABLE encoding
(which is what most non-MIME-aware recipients will see) as ``=3D8A'' is not
a valid character in ISO-8859-2 (it would be a control character).
``=3DC8'' is uppercase C with caron (hacek).
So this is a problem that Windows has a few characters in the wrong
location, and a MIME-aware program should do the translation from the code
page to the desired ISO-8859-2. (MIME permits you to send the message as
long as you tag it in the headers as CP-1250, but this would not show up
properly with most mailreaders, so better is to use ISO-8859-2.)
However, not all sites which are not aware of MIME QUOTED-PRINTABLE
need to suffer, since it is possible to send data in mail as 8-bit
characters, provided that you conform to the ESMTP specs for 8BITMIME.
This requires a sendmail program that knows how to handle 8BITMIME, and
the newest BSD Sendmail (8.7.*, presently 8.7.3) can do this. You also
need to have a user mail program which can send 8BITMIME. Many mailers
are presently set up to automatically QUOTED-PRINTABLE-ize everything, but
there are plans for some which can use whatever is supported. I can speak
for the next release of Pine, which is MIME-aware, and the next release,
3.92, can support 8BITMIME. If your mail server is running 8.7.3 sendmail,
properly configured, you can also send 8-bit characters from programs like
Elm without problems.
There is another way to send 8-bit characters, which is limited to the
headers of messages, and this is defined in RFC1522. It looks even uglier
than the MIME QUOTED-PRINTABLE encoding that is common today, and an
example of this can be seen in the Subject: header I have included with
this message. There are presently very few programs which have this
support, and Eudora seems to be one but with limits, Netscape has limited
and buggy support, and there are a few others. Again, the next release of
Pine3.92 will have this support as well, and I have been working with the
authors to make sure the support is correct.
If someone with a complete MIME-aware program were to view this
message, it would appear as:
v v ,
Subject: Cestina? Prosim!!!
(compatible with non-MIME mail/news-readers, except Nyetscape or other
programs which do not use fixed-width fonts :-)
So a site needs to do the following for national support...
o First, configure the system for the characters needed. Most sites
already have this, although there are some which still suffer with stupid
ASCII-only terminals.
o Second, get a mailreader and newsreader which supports MIME, and
preferably, also supports conversion from the local character set to the
net-preferred ISO-8859-2. Sometimes, this could be done by dropping the
DOS code page and using a code page which matches ISO-8859-2, as it is a
question of finding a smart mail program or making the OS smarter.
o Third, the mailreader and newsreader should have RFC1522 support to be
able to read headers such as mine.
o Fourth, to make things better for sites without MIME support and also to
minimize the amount of QUOTED-PRINTABLE encoding that is needed, get a
SMTP server with 8BITMIME support.
As an example, a site running BSD Sendmail 8.7.3 on Unix with
ISO-8859-2 fonts and Pine3.92 will have all the desired features. All
these programs are available without charge (except for the hardware).
Windows users and DOS users will have a bit more difficulty, but it
should be possible to obtain ISO-8859-2-compliant programs. (One of my
next steps will be to incorporate translation into programs, through GNU
recode or similar.)
I would like to see support for ISO-8859-2 MIME awareness and 8BITMIME
mail as high as possible in SK/CZ and elsewhere in Europe. I had been
thinking that I might volunteer to travel from institution to organization
and volunteer to consult with the installation of needed programs to do
this. Maybe I might do this in the spring and summer, if anyone is
interested. ;-) This would also give me a better feel for what equipment
is out there and what programs are used, so that I can make useful
suggestions for developers of mail and news and other programs which would
need to be localized for national support.
I would rather see support everywhere in CZ/SK, and in the world, for
mail and news in the native languages with complete accents, than to see
US-ASCII continue to dominate, and I will be happy to help people who
agree and want to use their native characters. However, I shall be
conservative and write in ASCII in English here because I don't know
Czech, although I always use German characters in mail sent to speakers
of that language.
vesel=E9 vianoce ;-)
Barry Bouwsma,
visiting TU Ko=B9ice, SK
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 16:34:27 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Zamazal
Organization: Foresta, a.s., Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Cestina??? Prosim, ne!
>>>>> "MU" == Matus Uhlar writes:
MU: podpory. Je to sice pekne, ale nakoniec si musime uvedomit ze to
MU: NAOZAJ nie je standard, a je celkom mozne ze niekde vam to server nie
To co tady vidim, to uz vubec neni standard. Kdybych v prvni tride zakladni
skoly napsal diktat bez hacku, carek a krouzku, dostal bych na nej petku
dvakrat podtrzenou. Ze by pani ucitelka nemela pochopeni pro standardy?
Take by mi vyhovovalo, kdyby se me PC 386 ustanovilo za standard, bylo by
zakazano vyrabet rychlejsi pocitace, aby se na ne nedelaly ty HW silene narocne
programy a ja nemusel setrit na upgrade. Tak co, pokusime se to uzakonit?
--
Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 16:20:08 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Zamazal
Organization: Foresta, a.s., Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Cestina, hacky, carky, donekonecna?
>>>>> "VV" == "Vagoun, Mr Voyta" writes:
VV: Rekl jsem si: "jeste jeden prispevek v teto diskuzi a budu se muset
VV: pripojit". I stalo se. Vzdyt je to tak jednoduche. Chci-li, aby me
VV: sdeleni nekdo se zajmem cetl, snazim se sve sdeleni sdelit v co
VV: nejvhodnejsi forme. Je-li mi jedno, zda si ho nekdo bude moci precist
VV: nebo ne, pak volim zpusob, ktery je nejvyhodnejsi pro mne.
VV: Mam velmi bohatou komunikaci s cs. partnery. Samozrejme se stalo, ze
VV: diky neznalosti mi nekteri poslali pro mne necitelny, zakodovany text.
VV: Po mem upozorneni se omluvili a nadale se mnou komunikuji tak, abych si
VV: jejich sdeleni mohl snadno precist, tzn cesky, bez carek a hacku.
VV: Myslim, ze se to nazyva "professional courtesy", prelozeno snad jako
VV: "profesionalni slusnost".
Ja zase nepovazuji za prilis slusne, kdyz se mnou nekdo komunikuje pomoci
jakesi hatmatilky, kterou "cestina" bez akcentu nepochybne je.
Jde o to, co minite pojmem "nejvhodnejsi forma". Podle meho nazoru je tento
pojem dvojznacny:
- Muze to byt forma, ve ktere je schopno zpravu rozlustit nejvetsi mnozstvi
prijemcu. Pak ale budeme muset psat anglicky -- co kdyby si nase reci cetl
nekdo, kdo neumi cesky? A anglicky asi jakz takz umi vice ctenaru nez cesky.
- Muze to byt forma, jakou by ocekaval problemu neznaly clovek, tj. \v{c}esky,
nikoliv cesky.
Vami zminena "professional courtesy" je zrejme to, co me proti memu presvedceni
nuti psat prispevky do newsu bez akcentu. Vase nazory jsou pochopitelne, je
to jako kdyz televize zacne vysilat kvalitnejsim typem signalu, ktery stare
televizory nejsou schopny prijimat. Jenomze jdete obracenym smerem, misto
abyste se snazil vylepsit svuj prijimac, snazite se zabranit zkvalitneni
vysilani. Vetsinou je to spise krok zpet nez naopak.
--
Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 15:52:06 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Zamazal
Organization: Foresta, a.s., Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
>>>>> "MK" == Martin Kamin writes:
MK: Jiri Novotny v poslednim dopise z 21 Dec 95 pise:
:: Vazeni pratele,
::
:: mel bych jednu prosbu, myslite si, ze je naprosto nezbytne nutne
:: pouzivat na BEZNOU POSTU MIME a cestinu ? Ja chapu, ze to vypada hezky,
:: ale kazdy nema cas nastavovat ruzna udelatka, a myslim, ze pro normalni
:: postu je to (zatim) prepych. Odpustte mi prosim muj konzervatismus :-).
MK: Pokud bychom radi vyuzili Internet pro LIDI (a proto tady je) tak
MK: zasadne rikam ANO! Myslite si, je tak nutne, aby klicek v zapalovani do
MK: auta byl u mista ridice? Neberte to nikdo osobne, ale lidi, kteri
MK: chteji Sit v zadnem pripade nema co zajimat, proc tam nejde posta v
MK: cestine - oni jsou UZIVATELE a nikdo z nas jim to nevysvetli proc tam
MK: cestina nefunguje spravne. V podstate je to ani nema zajimat -
MK: transportni system je od toho, aby delal veci, ktere se po nem
MK: pozaduji...
MK: Ani se jim moc nedivim, predpokladaji, ze zapalovani bude u ridice -
MK: tak proc kdyz muzu po SIti posilat kdovi co, by se nemohly posilat
MK: ceske dopisy? Tech UZIVATELU je mnohem vice nez nas, kteri jsme trochu
MK: IN.
MK: Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =C8E=8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
^^^
Coze jsme? Dovoluji si upozornit, ze v ISO 8859-2 (coz povazuji za jedine
standardni a rozumne kodovani pro cestinu s carkami, hacky a krouzky) neni znak
s kodem 8A nic rozumneho (\v{S} ma byt A9). V headeru pak ctu, ze zprava je
v kodu ISO-8859-1... Netvrdim, ze chyba je na strane odesilatele, konstatuji
pouze stav z hlediska prijemce.
Budiz toto dukazem, ze neni vse tak jednoduche. Jenomze, kdyz se chce, tak
(skoro) vsechno jde.
Jinak plne souhlasim. Jedna se jen o nasi lenost, ze trpime przneni rodneho
jazyka, misto abychom si dali trochu prace s napravou soucasneho stavu.
Me to osobne velmi rozciluje. Jsem zvedav, jestli se v roce 2000 bude newsovat
\v{c}esky aspon v jedne diskusni skupine. Silne o tom pochybuji. Pritom
kdybych chtel zacit prispivat clanky s ceskymi znaky v podobe MIME kodu,
potreboval bych na vytvoreni patricne nadstavby nejvyse jedno odpoledne. S
ostatnimi uzivateli tehoz postovniho systemu bych se podelil o sve zkusenosti,
aby jim uz cela instalace netrvala dele nez 10 minut. To je myslim dobra
investice -- nekolik minut za to, ze budu moci po nekolik nejblizsich let
pouzivat svuj matersky jazyk.
Podle mych zkusenosti vsak bohuzel v tomto smeru vede lenost nad ochotou neco
podniknout v pomeru tak aspon 10:1. Vubec nemohu pochopit, jaktoze se dodnes
auta nestartuji klikou, vzdyt to fungovalo, nekdy dokonce lepe...
--
Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:49:58 -0800
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Matousek
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
In-Reply-To:
On Fri, 22 Dec 1995, Petr Vodicka wrote:
> > Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme E I nebo ne? :-)))))
Nic ve zlem. Zazil jsem diskuse o pouzivani ceskych znaku ve Fidu, v
Internetovskem mailu i v podnikovem mailu Pathworks, ktery ji umi bez
problemu. I kdyz vysledek byl - cestina ano - stejne se vetsina UZIVATELU
casem dobrovolne vratila k ASCII mailum. Proc asi? Protoze nikdy
nedonutite vsechny k jednotnemu nastaveni. A v Internetu to snad ani
vsude nejde udelat...
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Petr Matousek +
+ PVT a.s. e-mail: matousek@chv.pvt.cz +
+ Skolni 5335, 430 01 Chomutov phone : +42-396-326245 +
+ Czech Republic fax : +42-396-27051 +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:51:12 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Pavel Korensky
Subject: Re[2]: Cestina ???
In-Reply-To: <199512221216.AA10613@dior.ics.muni.cz>
*************************************************************************
* This message has been encoded using the Multipurpose Internet Mail
* Extensions (MIME) format. The mail reader you are using does not
* support MIME. To display the non-text portions of this message you
* will need a MIME-capable mail reader such as Ishmail (info@halsoft.com).
*************************************************************************
------------1ljgymda1nzkxny4yodiuy2dmmnp3ehjazgf0b3izlmfuzxquy
Content-Type: text/enriched
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Martin Kamin < wrote:
Pokud bychom radi vyuzili Internet pro LIDI (a proto tady je) tak
zasadne rikam ANO! Myslite si, je tak nutne, aby klicek v zapalovani
do auta byl u mista ridice? Neberte to nikdo osobne, ale lidi, kteri
chteji Sit v zadnem pripade nema co zajimat, proc tam nejde
posta v cestine - oni jsou UZIVATELE a nikdo z nas jim to nevysvetli
proc tam cestina nefunguje spravne. V podstate je to ani nema
zajimat - transportni system je od toho, aby delal veci, ktere se po
nem pozaduji...
Ani se jim moc nedivim, predpokladaji, ze zapalovani bude u ridice -
tak proc kdyz muzu po SIti posilat kdovi co, by se nemohly posilat
ceske dopisy? Tech UZIVATELU je mnohem vice nez nas, kteri jsme
trochu IN.
Takze myslim, ze cestina by mela byt, jsme =C8E=8AI nebo ne? :-)))))
UZIVATELE necht se tedy pripoji do MS-Network. Mozna je to moc vyhraneny
nazor, ale mam dojem, ze prave kvuli UZIVATELUM je jiz dneska Internet
takovy jaky je ( pomaly, cenzurovany a podobne.)
S pranim Noveho roku
PavelK
=
------------1ljgymda1nzkxny4yodiuy2dmmnp3ehjazgf0b3izlmfuzxquy
--
****************************************************************************
* Pavel Korensky (pavelk@dator3.anet.cz) *
* DATOR3 Ltd., Modranska 1895/17, 143 00 Prague 4, Czech Republic *
* PGP key fingerprint: 00 65 5A B3 70 20 F1 54 D3 B3 E4 3E F8 A3 5E 7C *
****************************************************************************
------------1ljgymda1nzkxny4yodiuy2dmmnp3ehjazgf0b3izlmfuzxquy--
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:56:39 -0800
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Matousek
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
In-Reply-To: <199512251552.QAA01335@proxima.brn.foresta.cz>
V pripade nuceneho prechodu na ceske kodovani v teto konferenci proste
koncim - neni zase az tak moc zajimava...
Priklad: tyto neplodne diskuse o cestine.
PF 96!!!
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Petr Matousek +
+ PVT a.s. e-mail: matousek@chv.pvt.cz +
+ Skolni 5335, 430 01 Chomutov phone : +42-396-326245 +
+ Czech Republic fax : +42-396-27051 +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:57:33 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:49:58 -0800 you wrote:
>Nic ve zlem. Zazil jsem diskuse o pouzivani ceskych znaku ve Fidu, v
>Internetovskem mailu i v podnikovem mailu Pathworks, ktery ji umi bez
>problemu. I kdyz vysledek byl - cestina ano - stejne se vetsina UZIVATELU
>casem dobrovolne vratila k ASCII mailum. Proc asi? Protoze nikdy
>nedonutite vsechny k jednotnemu nastaveni. A v Internetu to snad ani
>vsude nejde udelat...
Reseni je jednoduche - nemaje nic (prozatim) co by umelo pseudo
standardni MIME a umoznilo mi cestinu (podekujme za to amikum
nemajicim zajem), nevidim jineho reseni - necht si pisi ostatni cesky,
ja to ale cist nemuzu a tim padem to budu ignorovat. Jedine spolecne
na cem se vsichni bez problemu muzeme domluvit je ciste ascii....
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:57:15 MET
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Petr Simek
Subject: Re: Cestina, hacky, carky, donekonecna?
In-Reply-To: <199512251620.RAA01427@proxima.brn.foresta.cz>; from "Milan
Zamazal" at Dec 25, 95 4:20 pm
> Ja zase nepovazuji za prilis slusne, kdyz se mnou nekdo komunikuje pomoci
> jakesi hatmatilky, kterou "cestina" bez akcentu nepochybne je.
>
> Jde o to, co minite pojmem "nejvhodnejsi forma". Podle meho nazoru je tento
> pojem dvojznacny:
> - Muze to byt forma, ve ktere je schopno zpravu rozlustit nejvetsi mnozstvi
> prijemcu. Pak ale budeme muset psat anglicky -- co kdyby si nase reci cetl
> nekdo, kdo neumi cesky? A anglicky asi jakz takz umi vice ctenaru nez cesky.
> - Muze to byt forma, jakou by ocekaval problemu neznaly clovek, tj. \v{c}esky,
> nikoliv cesky.
Ja v tom nevidim problem - staci upravit pravidla konferenci. At se kazdy
prihlasi do takove ktera mu vyhovuje. Nekteri se mohou obstastnovat dopisy
s diakritikou, jinym zase staci zpravy bez diakritiky - dulezitejsi je
informace. No a podle zajmu jednech ci druhych budou proste nektere listy
zajimavejsi jine nikoliv (listy kam nikdo nic nepise vetsinou moc ctenaru
nemaji). Jak si vymenuji jednotlivi uzivatele dopisy mezi sebou je
ciste jejich problem a pokud jeden z nich cestinu ma a druhy nikoliv, pak
se bude jeden z nich muset prizpusobit. Vetsinou se pak postupuje cestou
nejmensiho odporu - ten co cestinu ma, ji nepouziva.
Co se tyce pouzivani c~es~tiny v teto konferenci - tak jsem proti.
S pozdravem
--
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Petr Simek petrsi@baloun.entu.cas.cz | petrsi@virgo.jcu.cz |
| Biologicka Fakulta Jihoceske University |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------------*
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 12:44:59 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jirka Prchal
Organization: PVT a.s., divize Jihlava
Subject: Re: pop3d na ULTRIXu (was: Cestina??? Prosim, ne!)
In-Reply-To: <199512220942.AA25155@decsys.lf3.cuni.cz> from "Matej Cepl" at
Dec 22, 95 09:42:01 am
Matej Cepl writes:
)
...
) P.S.: Kdyby nahodou nekdo vedel, jak na ULTRIX nejaky ten POP3
) mailserver dostat a zajistit, aby to dokazalo behat na dvou
) platformach (jinak bychom museli zdejsi lidi preucovat na neco
) jineho a tom bychom z toho asi vsichni zahynuli).
Presvedcil jsem jeden pop3d k bezproblemovemu fungovani
na ULTRIXu. (Byly to zdrojaky puvodne k pop3d na Linuxu,
jen bylo potreba upravit autorizaci s enhanced security.)
Testovano s klienty WinPmail a MS Exchange (???, nejsem
si uplne jist, je-li to zrovna on...).
Mate-li o ne zajem, napiste.
Jirka Prchal
--
PVT a.s. divize Jihlava E-mail: prchal@jia.pvt.cz
Brezinova 19a Phone: +42-66-7116362
586 01 Jihlava Fax: +42-66-7116323
Czech Republic
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:51:56 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Martin Vystavil
Subject: Novorocna sutaz *
X-To: mst-l@savba.savba.sk, sme-l@savba.savba.sk,
pravda-l@savba.savba.sk, karmel@savba.savba.sk,
sanet-l@ccsun.tuke.sk
Zdravim a prajem dobry zaciatok noveho roku !
A pretoze je lepsie zacat novy rok informovany - ponukame Vam moznost vyhrat
predplatne dennika Narodna obroda (pre dvoch stastlivcov) ale aj knihu
Intelektualove od Paula Johnsona z nakladatelstva Navrat.
[Spoznate v nej starych znamych (Marx, Rousseau, Tolstoj, Satre, Mailer a ini)
z nie znamych pohladov a zistite, ze neboli schopni zit to co hlasali. Skoda
len, ze sme si to museli odskakat aj my. Nuz ale ked idey su hodnotnejsie
ako ludia, nie ? Kniha je nevhodna pre fasistov, komunistov, anarchistov a
nacionalistov do 90 rokov. Berie totiz iluzie.]
Uspesny novy rok !
Martin
PS - http://www.savba.sk/logos/96/
--
Martin Vystavil Email: vystavil@savba.sk
Computing Center Voice: +42-7-374-422
the Slovak Academy of Sciences Fax : +42-7-375-881
Dubravska cesta 9 PGP : ftp.savba.sk/pub/PGPkeys
Bratislava 842 35, Slovak Republic WWW : http://www.savba.sk/~comcmavy/
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:35:53 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Zamazal
Organization: Foresta, a.s., Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Cestina, hacky, carky, donekonecna?
>>>>> "PS" == Petr Simek writes:
PS: Ja v tom nevidim problem - staci upravit pravidla konferenci. At se
PS: kazdy prihlasi do takove ktera mu vyhovuje. Nekteri se mohou
PS: obstastnovat dopisy s diakritikou, jinym zase staci zpravy bez
PS: diakritiky - dulezitejsi je informace. No a podle zajmu jednech ci
PS: druhych budou proste nektere listy zajimavejsi jine nikoliv (listy kam
PS: nikdo nic nepise vetsinou moc ctenaru nemaji). Jak si vymenuji
PS: jednotlivi uzivatele dopisy mezi sebou je ciste jejich problem a pokud
PS: jeden z nich cestinu ma a druhy nikoliv, pak se bude jeden z nich muset
PS: prizpusobit. Vetsinou se pak postupuje cestou nejmensiho odporu - ten
PS: co cestinu ma, ji nepouziva.
Kdyz pod tim DO$ + Windoze ucetnictvi je a ... Ne, ne, ne, to bychom se zase
mohli dostat uplne nekam jinam.
PS: Co se tyce pouzivani c~es~tiny v teto konferenci - tak jsem proti.
Ja vam to neberu, jenom jsem si myslel, ze se jiz pomalu dostavame na uroven,
kdybychom mohli zacit tento problem resit. Asi jsem se mylil. Malem bych
ocekaval, ze se tu projevi pozitivni pristup a zacne se diskutovat o tom, jak
problem resit. Bohuzel/nastesti tak naivni nejsem, takze me neprekvapilo, ze
vetsina reakci byla destruktivnich a nedoporucila vubec nic krome "jsem
proti!".
A proc se vubec lidi musi ucit pravopis? Je tak slozity, malokdo jej poradne
umi a s informaci vetsinou nema nic spolecneho.
je nejlepsi se na nej vikaslat ze usetrime si spoustu prace se psanim a
nebudeme se muset posmivat tem kteri ho neumi nebudou problemi s hacki carkami
a krouzki a vubec navrhuji neridit se v teto konferenci pravopisnimi pravidli
jenom dobrovolnici
--
Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:21:47 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: Re: Cestina, hacky, carky, donekonecna?
On Wed, 27 Dec 1995 16:35:53 GMT you wrote:
>Ja vam to neberu, jenom jsem si myslel, ze se jiz pomalu dostavame na uroven,
>kdybychom mohli zacit tento problem resit. Asi jsem se mylil. Malem bych
>ocekaval, ze se tu projevi pozitivni pristup a zacne se diskutovat o tom, jak
>problem resit. Bohuzel/nastesti tak naivni nejsem, takze me neprekvapilo, ze
>vetsina reakci byla destruktivnich a nedoporucila vubec nic krome "jsem
>proti!".
Myslim ze jde o neco jineho - "flame wars" tohoto typu zazivaji
pravidelne vsechny site, ktere jenom v cechach existuji. Diskuse
nevedou nikdy nikam, jsou nesmyslne, reakce nafoukane a prehnane
(mimochodem, pokud te nekdy napadne si po sobe precist co jsi napsal,
mozna zjistis ze ti nepochybne chybi alespon mala davka taktu) a
vetsina radikalnich jedincu resi problemy z pozice jako by jim cela
sit patrila.
Co se tyce vyreseni problemu - ono neni co resit. Pokud Internet
neoplyva pevne danym standardem, ktery by nekdo pevne a neochvejne
vnucoval, neni co resit. Muzu se rozkrajet, ale zatim zadny mail
program pro OS/2 neumi podporovat jakesi pofiderni vychodoevropske
fonty. Podobnym zpusobem na tom je mnoho dalsich systemu a klientu.
Mohu se rozkrajet, ale znakovy terminal jedouci v nejakem VT100
emulacnim rezimu mi tu cestinu proste neobrazi a nezpracuje. Internet
se rozmohl a vzchopil diky tomu, ze lide (vetsinou) dokazali uzavrit
urcitou "dohodu" na necem co je mozne pro VETSINU jedincu a to bez
problemu a bez velke pracnosti.
Z druhe strany - Microsoft vypustil Win95, zabudoval Internet,
teoreticky podporuje i cestinu - nakonec to dopada tak, ze dostavam
mail z internetiho internet klienta, kde je prosim pekne zprava (v
MIME) a k ni je pokazde pripojenych asi pet, sest kilo uuencodovanych
veci (jakysi .DAT soubor). Kde se tam bere? Proc ho to posila? Dalsi
ukazka toho, ze Internet neni tak standardni jak by jeden
predpokladal.
Pokud by jsi ovsem, misto jalovych reci, navrhl nejake reseni, jsem
pro. Jedine reseni ktere ovsem vidim je - zmenit Internet, zavest
pevnou vladu jedne ruky, vsechny standardy standardizovat, zrusit
x-kodovani cestiny (Latin-2, CP852, CP1250, Kamenicky, UniCode) a
primet cely stat jenom k jednomu. A malem bych zapomnel, toho OS/2
mail klienta co mi umozni psat a cist cesky mi muzes poslat klidne
MIME - file attachmenty bych zvladl..... :)
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:59:45 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Michal Krsek
Organization: University of West Bohemia
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On 21 Dec 1995, PhDr. Brozek Ivo wrote:
> > > 1. zakoupit manu=E1ly, st=E1t se tak registrovan=FDm u=BEivatelem s plnou
> > atd ....
>
> Vazeni kolegove,
> reakce J. Novotneho se zrejme tyka dopisu J. Kuchty. I kdyz mam
> obycejny Pegassus Mail a nic jsem si na svem pocitaci nenastavil
> (mozna, ze neco nastavil spravce nasi univerzitni site), dopis J.
> Kuchty se mi zobrazil krasne s diakritikou, a ne tedy tak jako
> kolegovi Novotnemu.
> Asi to tedy jde a uz by to nemusel byt prepych!
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Proc by se nemohlo dohodnout (pro zacatek aspon v teto
> konferenci) posilani dopisu s diakritikou ?
Dobry den,
ja osobne jsem __velice proti ... Nedokazete si predstavit, na kolika
ruznych systemech se da brat posta ... Pokud si myslite, ze vetsina lidi
pouziva pegase, pak jste na velikem omylu ... No doinstalovani cestiny
(pokud vubec existuje) do vsech OS je obcas docela 'pakarna'. Omluvte
prosim ma prikra slova, doufam, ze ucel bude svetit prostredky (tedy ze
zustaneme bez 'hacek' a 'carku') ....
S pozdravem
Mike
P.S: Nazory uvedene v teto zprave nejsou v zadne korelaci s postoji Zapadoceske
Univerzity at uz jako celku nebo jejich casti.
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 16:45:19 EST
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: matu@INFIMA.CZ
Organization: >>> INFIMA BBS <<<
Subject: WWW stranka - David Bowie
Dobry den,
na nasledujicm URL byla zverejnena stranka Davida Bowieho venovana nejen
jemu, ale i jeho nadchazejicimu koncertu.
http://www.infima.cz/bowie
S pozdravem,
Petr Matousek
matu@novell.infima.cz
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 17:32:34 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Cestina v poste
Mozna ze by nebylo od veci opet poslat muj seznam situ, ktere podporuji
MIME cestinu v mailech (pro vsechny uzivatele). Seznam urcite neni uplny,
pokud do nej chcete zaradit, poslete mi cesky mail.=20
Jinak, MIME cestina v mailu existuje pro MS-DOS (pmail) Windows (pmail) i
Unix (pine, elm + iso-latin2 telnet pro DOS nebo Windows resp. ceska
podpora X windows nebo console). Pro zajemce muzu poslat podrobnejsi
informace.=20
Kdo chce, cestinu v mailu muze mit, a kdo nechce by mel chtit. :-)
Hynek
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seznam host=F9, kter=E9 podporuj=ED ISO-8859-2 mail (*=3Dcel=E1 [sub]dom=E9=
na)
*.vse.cz
*.fee.vutbr.cz
utia.cas.cz
vinnetou.site.cas.cz
kremik.site.cas.cz
site.cas.cz
ig.cas.cz
ksvi.ms.mff.cuni.cz
*.vslib.cz
mzcr.cz
hq.glavunion.anet.cz (=E8asem)
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 12:27:13 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
At 15:52 25.12.1995 GMT, you wrote:
>Dovoluji si upozornit, ze v ISO 8859-2 (coz povazuji za jedine
>standardni a rozumne kodovani pro cestinu s carkami, hacky a krouzky) ...
>
> [...]
>
>Me to osobne velmi rozciluje. Jsem zvedav, jestli se v roce 2000 bude newsovat
>\v{c}esky aspon v jedne diskusni skupine. Silne o tom pochybuji. Pritom
>kdybych chtel zacit prispivat clanky s ceskymi znaky v podobe MIME kodu,
>potreboval bych na vytvoreni patricne nadstavby nejvyse jedno odpoledne. S
>ostatnimi uzivateli tehoz postovniho systemu bych se podelil o sve zkusenosti,
>aby jim uz cela instalace netrvala dele nez 10 minut. To je myslim dobra
>investice -- nekolik minut za to, ze budu moci po nekolik nejblizsich let
>pouzivat svuj matersky jazyk.
>
>Podle mych zkusenosti vsak bohuzel v tomto smeru vede lenost nad ochotou neco
>podniknout v pomeru tak aspon 10:1. Vubec nemohu pochopit, jaktoze se dodnes
>auta nestartuji klikou, vzdyt to fungovalo, nekdy dokonce lepe...
>--
>Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
>Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic
Tak tady mate jeden navrh:
Na
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/character-sets
je seznam registrovanych jmen kodovani. Je tam take ISO-8859-2-Windows-Latin-2
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
a muze se rovnou posilat v CP1250. Vyhodou bude ze mail programy neznajici
charsety
budou na Windows rovnou zobrazovat spravne.
Ze nejake UNIXy a jine nebudou mit ani paru o co jde ? Vzdyt je to preci
standard.
:-))))))))))))))))))))
A kolik odpoledni Vam pak bude trvat aby se prizpusobily vsechny Vase
platformy ?
:-))))))))))
PS: Tohle samozrejme nemyslim vazne, ale kdyby mne nekdo nutil k pouzivani
c~es~tiny
v mailu, tak to je moje reakce.
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:16:57 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Tomas Vild
Subject: Re: Cestina v poste
In-Reply-To: from
"Hynek Med" at Dec 28, 95 05:32:34 pm
>
> Mozna ze by nebylo od veci opet poslat muj seznam situ, ktere podporuji
> MIME cestinu v mailech (pro vsechny uzivatele). Seznam urcite neni uplny,
> pokud do nej chcete zaradit, poslete mi cesky mail.=20
>
> Jinak, MIME cestina v mailu existuje pro MS-DOS (pmail) Windows (pmail) i
> Unix (pine, elm + iso-latin2 telnet pro DOS nebo Windows resp. ceska
> podpora X windows nebo console). Pro zajemce muzu poslat podrobnejsi
> informace.=20
>
> Kdo chce, cestinu v mailu muze mit, a kdo nechce by mel chtit. :-)
>
> Hynek
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Seznam host=F9, kter=E9 podporuj=ED ISO-8859-2 mail (*=3Dcel=E1 [sub]dom=E9=
> na)
>
> *.vse.cz
> *.fee.vutbr.cz
> utia.cas.cz
> vinnetou.site.cas.cz
> kremik.site.cas.cz
> site.cas.cz
> ig.cas.cz
> ksvi.ms.mff.cuni.cz
> *.vslib.cz
> mzcr.cz
> hq.glavunion.anet.cz (=E8asem)
>
>
> --
> Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
>
to neni na celou republiku zas tak moc nemyslis?
a krom toho tato konference bezi na cvut a ta jak z tveho seznamu vidim
cestinu nepodporuje. takze ...
pokud se chcete i nadale bavit cesky (v ascii) prosim pokud ne, tak proc si
nezalozit svoji vlastni konferenci a v ni se muzete vyradit do sytosti.
s pozdravem,
tom
tom@eunet.cz
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:47:19 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
On 29 Dec 1995, Jiri Kvarda wrote:
> je seznam registrovanych jmen kodovani. Je tam take ISO-8859-2-Windows-Latin-2
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a muze se rovnou posilat v CP1250. Vyhodou bude ze mail programy neznajici
> charsety
> budou na Windows rovnou zobrazovat spravne.
> Ze nejake UNIXy a jine nebudou mit ani paru o co jde ? Vzdyt je to preci
> standard.
Ale ne pro posilani mailu, kde to mate v prislusnem RFC?
> :-))))))))))))))))))))
No dobre..
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:51:10 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: Cestina v poste
On 29 Dec 1995, Tomas Vild wrote:
> to neni na celou republiku zas tak moc nemyslis?
To jsou jenom ti, kteri se mne ozvali. Jinak souhlasim, je to malo.
> a krom toho tato konference bezi na cvut a ta jak z tveho seznamu vidim
> cestinu nepodporuje. takze ...
Jejich listservery ale prislusne hlavicky propousteji.. :-)
> pokud se chcete i nadale bavit cesky (v ascii) prosim pokud ne, tak proc si
> nezalozit svoji vlastni konferenci a v ni se muzete vyradit do sytosti.
Neagitoval jsem pro pouzivani cestiny v konferencich (ostatne vidis, ze
pisu cesky jako kazdy jiny), ale pro to, aby si kazdy cestinu pokud mozno
zavedl, a az ji budeme mit vsichni, muzeme tak psat i do konferenci.. :-)
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 17:13:01 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
At 14:47 29.12.1995 +0100, you wrote:
>> je seznam registrovanych jmen kodovani. Je tam take
ISO-8859-2-Windows-Latin-2
>>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Ale ne pro posilani mailu, kde to mate v prislusnem RFC?
Vytah z RFC1521:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) Part Two:
Message Header Extensions for Non-ASCII Text
3. Character sets
The "charset" portion of an encoded-word specifies the character set
associated with the unencoded text. A charset can be any of the
character set names allowed in an RFC 1521 "charset" parameter of a
"text/plain" body part, or any character set name registered with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
IANA for use with the MIME text/plain content-type [3]. (See section
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
7.1.1 of RFC 1521 for a list of charsets defined in that document).
Some character sets use code-switching techniques to switch between
"ASCII mode" and other modes. If unencoded text in an encoded-word
contains control codes to switch out of ASCII mode, it must also
contain additional control codes such that ASCII mode is again
selected at the end of the encoded-word. (This rule applies
separately to each encoded-word, including adjacent encoded-words
within a single header field.)
When there is a possibility of using more than one character set to
represent the text in an encoded-word, and in the absence of private
agreements between sender and recipients of a message, it is
recommended that members of the ISO-8859-* series be used in
preference to other character sets.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/iana/assignments/character-sets je prehled
oficialnich jmen charsetu registrovanych s IANA.
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:26:16 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Daniel Docekal
Subject: ISO-8859-2 a ostatni kodovani
Mohl by mi nekdo poradit, kde najdu definice jednotlivych kodovani,
ktere pripadaji v uvahu? Chci si napsat konvertidlo z MIME (=tvaru) na
CP852 pouzivanou v OS/2ce.....
Daniel
' Daniel Docekal - codalan@login.cz - daniel@codalan.cz when available
'
' Computer Data, a.s., Trebohosticka 2283, 100 00, Praha 10, Czech Republic,
also at '
' 2:420/77@fidonet.org, BBS at 42-2-703886 and 42-2-703879 (largest BBS in Czech
rep. '
' Phone 42-2-7078111, Fax 42-2-703875, Mail602 daniel@CODALAN@42-2-703875
'
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:45:06 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Jiri Kvarda
Subject: Re: ISO-8859-2 a ostatni kodovani
At 22:26 29.12.1995 GMT, you wrote:
>Mohl by mi nekdo poradit, kde najdu definice jednotlivych kodovani,
>ktere pripadaji v uvahu? Chci si napsat konvertidlo z MIME (=tvaru) na
>CP852 pouzivanou v OS/2ce.....
Resil jsem nyni podobny problem, pisu konvertory pro Windows NT mezi
ruznymi kodovymi stranami, mezi kodovymi stranami a HTML entitami a
management dokumentu s vice kodovanimi pro WWW server.
Jako nejlepsi zdroj kodovych tabulek se ukazal nastroj cstocs,
(C) 1994 Jan "Yenya" Kasprzak . Je ulozen nekde v Brne
a asi by se dal najit cmuchalem.
Nicmene chybi tam tabulka pro Macintosh System7 CZ a nekolik znaku v
ISO-8859-1 a CP1250.
S pozdravem,
Jiri Kvarda Ceske Vysoke Uceni Technicke
e-mail: kvarda@vc.cvut.cz Vypocetni centrum, ICSC
tel.: +42 2 2435 3306 Praha, Cesko
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 16:15:18 +0100
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Hynek Med
Organization: Prague University of Economics
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
Dobra, dostal jste mne, nicmene ja bych kladl duraz na tenhle odstavec:
> When there is a possibility of using more than one character set to
> represent the text in an encoded-word, and in the absence of private
> agreements between sender and recipients of a message, it is
> recommended that members of the ISO-8859-* series be used in
> preference to other character sets.
Ach jo, proc jenom Microsoft zmenil v ISO-8859-2 par znaku a nazval to
CP1250 (nebo kolik)..
Hynek
--
Hynek Med, xmedh02@manes.vse.cz
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 14:04:45 GMT
Reply-To: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
Sender: Diskuse o mistnich problemech v siti
From: Milan Zamazal
Organization: Foresta, a.s., Czech Republic
Subject: Re: Cestina ???
Ac to nebylo mysleno vazne, myslim, ze to za malou poznamku stoji.
>>>>> "JK" == Jiri Kvarda writes:
JK: A kolik odpoledni Vam pak bude trvat aby se prizpusobily vsechny Vase
JK: platformy ?
Ani jedno. Na vsech platformach pouzivam GNU Emacs, ktery z Windoze kodovani
do ISO-8859-2 konvertovat umi. Kdybych potreboval obraceny prevod, mohl/musel
bych pouzit cstocs, protoze by bylo pod mou uroven, abych delal prevod do
Windoze. :-) Takze v tom by problem nebyl, po teto strance je skoro uplne
jedno, jestli pouzivat ISO-8859-2 nebo Micro$oft-code version-xxx (proc vsak
Windoze kodovani nepouzit za standard, je snad zrejme :-).
PS: Tohle samozrejme nemyslim vazne, ale kdyby mne nekdo nutil k pouzivani
JK: c~es~tiny v mailu, tak to je moje reakce.
Jiste, nikdo nikoho k nicemu nenuti. Zcela souhlasim s tim, co napsal Hynek
Med:
: Neagitoval jsem pro pouzivani cestiny v konferencich (ostatne vidis, ze
: pisu cesky jako kazdy jiny), ale pro to, aby si kazdy cestinu pokud mozno
: zavedl, a az ji budeme mit vsichni, muzeme tak psat i do konferenci.. :-)
Jen aby to vubec nekdy bylo.
--
Milan Zamazal, pdm@fi.muni.cz, http://www.fi.muni.cz/~pdm/
Student of computer science, Masaryk University, Brno, Moravia, Czech Republic